Marketing Against The Grain

on today's show we're gonna show you the single most important chart in ai that explains why your company isn't going to be a winner just because you use the best models you heard that right the best ai models are not gonna dictate who wins and who loses in the ai we're gonna give you the actual winning in formula and how you can implement it at your company today all of that and more on this episode of marketing against green here's a quick word from hubspot hubspot helped tumblr solve a big problem they needed to move fast to produce trending content but their marketing team was stuck waiting on engineers to code every single email campaign now they use hubspot customer platform to email real time trending content to millions of users in just seconds the impact three times more engagement double the content creation wanna move faster like tumblr visit hubspot dot com alright kit we are here with yet another ai model gp t five point four is another model beats lots of benchmarks apparently one of the best models on the planet and we're kinda here to argue in this twelve to fifty minute video that it doesn't even matter it that this model does not even matter doesn't matter how good it is model capabilities are not the important thing right now in the ai industry yeah we're gonna instead tell you what the most important thing instead of the model's is getting better what that is and how you can leverage that for your business to actually change growth in this new era and kieran based on that there's a chart that's going viral from ant philanthropic that i think was the lightning rod moment for the conversation we wanted to have and a lot of people are interpreting it one way we have like a very different interpretation of it so gp five point four great code model great intelligence model beat them and t and lots of benchmarks but we've been here before every single model that comes out kind of goes a little bit more up the benchmarks and now there are ways that they kind of align themselves a benchmark to do really well but we are believers that model capabilities are already very very good and actually given people even more capable models is not gonna make much of a difference right now because of this chart so this chart is being shared pretty widely around x and it's from ant so for picture on t they're putting at these to try to show what the impact of ai could be across industries so what it's showing you is theoretical ai coverage which means how much of that industry could be theoretically automated with ai and there are no surprises here ai is really good at code and math it's very good at finance it's very good at engineering type roles it's very good at legal very good at like arts and media pretty great at all of the office and admin work so it can get you a lot of coverage in a lot of different industries and the red is the observed ai coverage just how much ai is being deployed within this industries and how much of that work it is automated and i think what you and i talked about on slack is we don't believe that for the average ai user the model is already good enough it really is not going to matter this year if they get another model another model another model the really hard thing about ai is actually integrating it into your existing workflows i think one important thing to understand is like i think everybody's is looking at this chart and they're looking at this blue area which is theoretical and they're like oh gosh ai is gonna wipe out a lot of the jobs in all these categories and like that's very theoretical might happen might happen year from now might happen a decade from now we don't know what's the most interesting i think what you and i are interpreting this differently is that there's this massive gap between the red and the blue and there's some work that's happening in coding and in business process and in sales and some of these customer service these really important markets but it's like still small relative to what the perceived opportunity is and that blue is really kind of the perceived opportunity so right if we all watching the show today agree that like oh there's some theoretical much bigger opportunity versus where we are now like what the heck does that mean is the big question we just dropped the ai adoption playbook it gives you the exact framework to actually redesign your business with ai it's a proven roadmap that helped one company book eleven thousand meetings and another to resolve issues thirty nine percent faster get it for free click the link in the description so there's a good story that this has happened you know once before in time i i was giving you a good quote from a dinner i was at and i'm with a bunch of finder and one of the founders in there is incredible and he had this incredible quote where he said you cannot walk into the future if you're looking back at the past and i think this story i'm gonna go through kind of explains what's happening which ai is being compared a lot to electricity alright it's like a fundamental thing that everyone is going to access and get a lot of value from and thomas edison built electricity generating stations in manhattan and london in eighteen eighty one and within in the year electricity was being sold as commodity so we had electricity as a commodity in eighty eighty one this incredible new invention but by nineteen hundred less than five percent of mechanical drive power in american factories came from electric motors and so companies had not integrated into how they were doing work and if you looked at that it's because those factories kept their old layouts they just swapped street steam for electricity and then ran the same processes so think about that in terms of ai the productivity explosion of electricity when in factories only happened when they redesigned their factory floor around electricity right so they started by stepping into the future with electricity by looking back at the past the same old processes i'll keep the same processes i will swap steam for electricity and i'll just do that thing and there was only five percent adoption it got wide adoption when all the factories when they redesigned their exact factories around ai that i think is going to be the fundamental shift that happens in companies not ai model capabilities but redesign the company to be an ai native company team structure skill sets how people do work and that's gonna take way more time where it takes these companies to come out with another model another model there's a cool thing you can do now go to complexity go to chat go to any one of these models and ask it to build a table of open jobs in google deep mind claude and t and open eye and tell it to show you who they're hiring for because if you ask who they're hiring for it tells you a lot about their strategy and i do this all the time they are hiring for ford deployed engineers right people who can help companies integrate it into that business but not swap steam for electricity but how you start to redesign your business around these models i think this is honestly one of the most important points we've ever made on the show is that the bottleneck is humans that human bottleneck is going to take i don't know karen and what do you think decades to fully get through i think it depends if we get agents that get deployed as an employees and can actually do a bunch of that work internally but for the average customer you and i have talked about this like there's like we go to dinners with ai finder and it's a different planet everyone's in there like cloud md file trying to like get my open claw agent to like run a bunch of my stuff then there's a category where are kinda doing some stuff with ai and they're like hey i'm using chat on a day by day basis asking it some questions maybe getting it to write an email and then there's a group of people are like what the fuck you all talking about the majority of humans but that's the majority here was a study majority yeah there was a study recently maybe from open ai or another one of these companies where like normal people it just people surveyed eighty four percent had never used ai right that's how early we are if you look at some of the data only eight point six percent of companies have even deployed an ai agent in production right there is such a small amount of usage and open ai i had a state of enterprise report actually that was pretty interesting where it just show the top five percent in terms of intensity in terms of usage where orders of magnitude way ahead of everyone else like the gap between the top percentile and everyone else has never been greater well one it shows you that the single biggest opportunity on this chart is actually the gap between the red and the blue and right if you can help any a company transform and become ai native then there's a lot of opportunity a lot of money to be made there because like we said the model's are smart they can do all these things right back but i wanna tell you about another podcast i love the d pod hosted by ramon bar and blaine bolus is brought to you by hubspot media d pod is a podcast about all things direct to consumer remote and blame cover everything from starting growing and optimizing e commerce stores and direct to consumer brands they talk with founders marketers platforms creators and marketing and growth agencies to cover topics like brand building social media influencer marketing website conversion paid media facebook ads and much much more if you're interested in the stories behind your favorite consumer brands this podcast is for you they did an amazing show called meta ad secrets how top d brand spend three hundred k monthly profit you can listen to the d pod wherever you get your podcast i think what's going on g is a few things one first of all all the cost of these models is greatly subsidized right now and like if you compared the actual cost to get from red to blue like in terms of actual cost versus a non you know subsidized cost it would be pretty expensive right like the amount of compute that you're paying for inference that you're paying for to close that gap it's gonna be a lot it's not going to be tens of dollars or hundreds of dollars can be tens of thousands of dollars right yeah i agree with that okay but we are not the episode just to give you the opinions just to give you like here's what we think we wanna give you the pro calories could you've been working on a skill that can actually help companies close that gap okay so i'm here in complexity computer which is one of many ai tools it's kind of inc to what what we're using here and i had to do a task i gave it a very complex prompt it ran for well over an hour and this is my v one i'm gonna edit it through this and and i'll give you the skill at the of the day but what i had to do is basically can it build a skill that you could use in any ai tool chat petite claude per complexity cloud code what have you any tool to actually help you take your team yourself your team your company from you know being that factory that isn't set up for electricity to your metaphor care and to being an ai native you know organization to actually understand what it would take okay so k what i really had to do was go and research current best practices in ai transformation look at all the current frameworks rethink them and actually make a new framework for us and a new skill that's gonna help people take through so here's what it did it researched twenty existing frameworks it did a bunch of real world case study analysis it did a failure analysis and current best practices from mckinsey and h b and wharton and all of the fancy folks here's the framework here and i want your opinion on this the new framework is called rapid five and r is reveal assess the team's actual workflows maturity and map the jagged frontier of where ai helps versus hertz their specific work a architect design the target ai native operating model with workflow by workflow before and after designs technology selection and change management pea proof implement through two weeks sprints on real world pilots not synthetic measured across three horizons efficiency capability and transformation in grain shift from tool adoption to identity shift through peer learning ai first defaults and performance integration indeed d build a ninety day reassess cycles because ai capabilities change quickly alright what do you think about the framework here yeah so let's say so that's changes quarterly and that's important because it actually understands that things are changing in a fluid way so this is really good what you're really doing and what we're showing folks here and i think you really want us to go deeper on this specific use case you're building a four deployed ai skill four play engineers so people our listeners understand they're going into companies they're working for open cloud working for these different ai products and they go in and they implement ai into your business and so when i've talked with a lot of ai founders their biggest problem is that companies are struggling to integrate ai and agents into their workflows which is what that chart is saying so they hire the specialists who go in and do that for you what you're actually kinda of building is a skill for the average business to be able to do four deploy ai engineering within their own company and so this here is like a pretty good framework what is the inputs to run this skill the skill requires essential team profile core workflows five to ten current ai state and transformation goals like that's the bare minimum important data and systems environment leadership culture context constraints risks and then helpful competitor benchmarks individual skills inventory and prior performance data okay so a lot of this is gonna be tricky to get actually i think a takeaway for folks here is if you wanna close a gap between the red and the blue for your business because you think there's value and intricate ai across a certain team that you can actually ask ai to actually start to build a skill that will allow you to kind of give it some input around that team and i think to your point one of the suggestions would be have your team just do a bunch of looms of how they work and then take those transcripts and then give it to your skill and this skill extrapolate that using some sort of framework like you have here and then creates the ways that ai can automate those things and maybe we'll show that in in practice maybe we'll do an episode where we show to would part two of this where we'll like really do the screen share we'll try to simplify the inputs and you and i will just keep iterating on the skill like offline and part of that episode until we get it like really really tight and then we'll give it to everybody so i'm sure there's some people who want the skill now we will give the skill away once we think is like really good we wanna go through a bunch of fictional examples and then we wanna do a couple real world examples and then we'll know it's like pretty good cool okay that's the episode opportunity you might be ahead of your competitors but you're probably behind the market opportunity big market opportunity i think it's funny that ant philanthropic put that chart out there's a bunch you could talk about it but i think the most interesting thing is that is a real gap for a lot of businesses from where they are to where they could be appreciate you watching and hit like hit subscribe we'll see you real soon on marketing it's a great hey everyone you know kirin and i have been doing the podcast for a while now we've been at this for a couple years we love it we could not be happier to be doing this but we wanted to take things to the next level we wanna level up the impact we're having with marketing against the grain so the next step of our journey is something we're really really excited about we're gonna launch the marking against the grain newsletter and marketing against the grain newsletter is going to be amazing if you are a marketing leader practitioner you're in the trenches do in marketing every day this is for you we're gonna deliver right to your email inbox and you're gonna get all the behind the scenes frameworks practices tutorials from us from guest we have on the show and from people even beyond the podcast that we think are gonna be helpful and really have an hacked on your day to day week to week doing marketing you're going to love it it is something we've been talking about for a while we're really excited to have it out in the world we've already got a hundred thousand marketers who are on this newsletter please join it's completely free we love to have you as part of the marketing against the grain community and it's easy you can click the link in the description below 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okay complexity computer is just out and it is incredible i just give it one prompt and it built me a live interactive website using poly market data not just that but we used it to gray hubspot in higher product marketing strategy it built us an incredible product marketing skill that you can use because we're going to give it away at the end of this show all of that more on this episode of marketing against the green here's a quick word from hubspot hubspot helped tumblr solve a big problem they needed to move fast to produce trending content but their marketing team was stuck waiting on engineers to code every single email campaign now they use hubspot customer platform to email real time trending content to millions of users in just seconds the impact three times more engagement double the content creation wanna move faster like tumblr visit hubspot dot com here we're on a super agent bender on the show today we've done a bunch of stuff with man we've done some claude code stuff with our friend james at boring marketer now we're all in on per complexity computer and all the cool stuff you can build with these really advanced agents so we're gonna walk you through today some really awesome marketing growth use cases but here before we do that off air we were kinda talking about it seems like all these ai companies are converging on one core use case that will all be doing it's just a question of where we'll be doing it and maybe break breakdown on what you mean by that and like what you think that use case really is i guess if you've taken the last week or week can a half of all of our episodes and you kinda watch them back for man from cloud code and even the super scale where they had their autonomous paid agent and so what has happening and so that you have a super agent and that agent has connectors and skills right so it's able to connect to whatever amount of tools you give it access to and then it has a bunch of skills to do things in those tools and what is kinda breaking my brain is every single thing is convergent on hey we're going to be a super agent and you give us tools and tools or things like hey you can access my email you can access youtube this is what open call has got a ton of press ad you can go back and watch the episode we did in that so like open call is same thing an autonomous super agent connects to your tools has a bunch of skills the skill is like i can do content i can do paid i can do ae i can do some kind of pre sales work and i've started to kinda go like what is gonna differentiate all of these different apps from each other like they're kind of all our conversion on hey where's this a super agent it can do things autonomously we can enable tools and it has a bunch of skills that can access and i think you're gonna show per complexity computer is in the ballpark of one of those super agent and it's pretty sweet pretty and i'm in this all the time i spent the entire weekend in cloud code i built myself a financial adviser on saturday night whilst i was watching a movie called giant by princeton az z i'm a huge princeton fan i'm just there like what is my life like i'm building like a financial adviser here a cloud code i'm watching a movie which is a bot thing to do i don't think you should like terrible you just take some time away from your laptop could just like commit to at you arabic movie but i couldn't and then i get fo because you're like hey i'm using per complexity like computer it's sweet it's two hundred dollars a month but i don't care about i'll pay for it and you show me this stuff i'm like oh this is like awesome we're gonna show you this my stuff but i'm like there's too much you have any super agents for tools and skills i don't know which one to use so i do think what we're saying here we're about to get into complexity computer which is another one of these super agents i think the advice you're giving folks is like oh this use case is getting pretty clear and it's gonna be kind of a primary way you interface with all your other software and data and tools you're probably better off to focus on one of them i think you're a better and really build and iterate and get right and that list is essentially cloud code slash c per complexity computer man open claw anything else you would put on that list just for people no you know what what's fascinating only because of an acquisition open ai wouldn't have been in your list right they're only in there because they bought open claw which i think is google isn't in that list google isn't in that list yeah so that was just very fascinating and by the way open ai ais is in the list i'd say the most difficult one like open quality is the most technical is the least accessible most people watching the show probably will not go and use open call claude coworker code or complexity computers is probably the best option for the average person watching this show though i did see here that mac minis are sold out in new york city because of a open claus has caught the zeitgeist i think they are the one that has the community being built around it this is a great marketing lesson like the guy i i watched him on le treatment and he just wanted to do something different from everyone else and basically give it a personality a quirky personality which is why it had the lobster and make it feel fun not make it feel like kieran and i think he is a example of a brand marketer he branded himself against the curve yeah and people will now think of that as like the fun community doing like end of the stuff and so it does show you the i think marketing is going to be to d facto skill to have because you're gonna have all of these super agents they do very similar things and open cloth because of one reason or another is the one that it has caught the imagination of people yeah hey guys one of the most valuable things we shared in the show today was this amazing product marketing skill to audit the product marketing on your website we're given that away for you for free so if you want that skill click the link in the description below and we're gonna give that to you it has never been a better time to be a creative person with taste right never and we've said that a lot on the show but let's show you exactly what that means let's share a few computer examples so kieran you and i write a book we've talked about it a little bit on the show before right and so this is complexity computer when you sign into complexity you have search and now you have computer and when you start a task in computer you describe a task and that task just runs in the background until it's done like you were running it on cloud code or in a terminal on your local computer right hence per complexity computer so i wanna show you the task that i kicked off last night i want you to build me a skill d file that can design the world's best business book cover currently writing a book about marketing ai i want to be able to give a full brief on the book and i have the skill execute five remarkable design concepts to do that i need you to go and scrape and reverse engineer that covers that the top one hundred business books sold over the last twenty four months so i need you to find the images i need you to analyze the images i need you to name the core components design styles how they interpret how they're gonna to connect to the core content and message of the book blah blah blah so like there were some really complex stuff i asked it to do right it had to compile a ranking it had to go and scrape all those images it had to then go analyze each image and compile insights from each image right and then had to take all those insights and build them into a skill that you could use in perplexing computer cloud code anywhere skill remember skills are one of the most important things we talk about on the show and it just went did it karen i think that's what's really cool yeah and if you were doing this in cloud code like you probably would need to install fire call you would have had to you know do some more technical work it might have been better quality and cloud code because you would have had much more granular control but i do think that's one of the trade offs here as ease versus like depth of control right and p computer i do think has a little bit more depth of control so you can see that it builds a plan of what it needs to do and you and i have been talking a lot about like planning becoming a really big important part of how you work with ai and probably do a show on that soon so then it researches through all of the best selling list what the books are compile the list and then what's interesting is once it has a text file of all the books it collects the cover images and then it spawned karen four different batches to generate and review the covers of everything right it's like creating agent teams yeah now let me launch four parallel sub agents each analyzing twenty five book covers in death which is pretty wild right and so look the other thing about complexity computer is that it's model agnostic which means it can use google models opening our models claude models whatever right you can see right here it's using claude son four point six to do this and it's telling you each of these twenty five titles took ten minutes so basically if they hadn't been batch it would probably take like an hour right to do all these and so that it gives you all of the batches and the learnings it writes the skill file that you can now use and everything gives you basically we now have a book slash cover design file that i can send to you and we can both iterate on book covers together right it gives me all the learnings and then i then gave it a brief of the book that we're writing and then it created a bunch of concepts which are cool but i needed to be able to share it with you in a more easy way so then it built a website yeah i had built a website so that i could just send you the link basically built this beautiful website of rationale of why that cover is the way it is and by the way these are good mocks man yeah these are really good mo i was with real good mocks like and the reason they're so good is because to your point it's calling the best tool for each task yes it's not collects these image tool again coming back to the opener of the show the super agent that can use the best tools and skills to complete the task is going to be the primary way you use ai and that means the results are going to be like best in class remember when we first talked about ai all the way number years ago we talked about code become disposable and there's so many use cases of it like here's a website i i've just built for this five minute thing so you can show me these and then never think about it again there's two things that i think that we got really right disposable web for sure agents yes and then i i did get a third i would just like to go on record for the pod community even if this gets edited it out that i was right about the x valuation by the way oh you and i had a whole podcast on if elon would be able to turn twitter around yeah and i just saw that the valuation is six x above where he bought it always invest in the person exactly right back but i wanna tell you about another podcast i love the d pod hosted by ramon bar and blaine bolus is brought to you by hubspot video d pod is a podcast about all things direct to consumer remote and blaine cover everything from starting growing and optimizing e commerce stores and direct to consumer brands they talk with founders marketers platforms creators and marketing and growth agencies to cover topics like brand building social media influencer marketing website conversion paid media facebook ads and much much more if you're interested in the stories behind your favorite consumer brands this podcast is for you they did an amazing show called meta ad secrets how top d brands spend three hundred k monthly profit you can listen to the d pod wherever you get your podcast you had a cool thing that you wanted to show cool thing to go do to test this out is they have this cool thing where they have live examples which is great onboarding tool especially they have a cool live examples here that you can go click on you can see it work and bring up the final asset and i haven't thought about this so they did this state of us politics and the core sources is poly markets and so poly market is a tool that where you can bet on outcomes anything at all and that is such a killer thing so like they have the entirety of old bets being made around us politics in a single and so you can see here that they have suffering trump's presidency federal reserve and it's just pulling in all of the info from poly market and so you can do that about anything like you can take any kind of topic and you can basically create a website all around the bets being made in poly market on that topic so i like for sports i could pull one together for everything that's happening around the premier entrepreneurship and send out to my friends to show like these are the so good it comes to people are banging on think this one is really killer because poly market also tends to be right a lot of the time so it's not a bad way to like understand what's happening in the world yeah because like you can literally do everything and by the way i would do a separate rev of this where you put a confidence score on each of these based on poly markets success in each of these categories and yeah you put like a confidence score on them which would be pretty cool yeah so i think that's a really good use case you can go basically ask it to just build something use poly market as a source and it will actually go do that there was another funny one actually so this one's kinda cool right it has all of the ai lead companies has the whole watch list built for them but first of all i thought this was like someone had just you know you you can publish things publicly in yeah claude and so i actually have the same thing where you can publish your or work publicly and i thought someone had accidentally done this but then i realized it was an example but pretty good this is someone like get in an offer at stripe as a senior product manager and using propensity to come back and give a counter and like wow it's really hard to deal with humans anymore like negotiation because every human is so well informed right it's ai just builds the counter yeah offer and so that's a pretty interesting one if you're going through a rule at the moment and you need some help like this one was really well done like research the different base salaries research what you should get in rs issues the and then came back with a counter offer i thought that was a really cool one that's actually really a use case you know i've been really impressed with the karen i let me show a couple other things and then we'll talk about some best practices also for how to use per complexity computer i gave it by version of the marketing touring test kieran this is the thing that i ask every new ai advancement to do okay which i basically gave it a long instruction of i want you to go find the fastest growing non obvious companies out there and reverse engineer the unique marketing strategies that they've done k the simple basically i'm trying to create a mechanism to discover new hacks to grow right yeah yeah yeah and so it's like i wanted them to go out find a list of these high growing websites it aren't like the ant philanthropic open of the world like the next set down what's driving their growth what tactics are they doing to drive that growth what could be learned from that k and so it's pretty complicated because they have to go and figure out find enough data to be confident in a ranking of these companies and then basically reverse engineer what those companies have done and they've looked at data from similar web and lots of other purpose they also like look at our organic traffic decline and they're doing this like relative to hubspot but what's interesting is at the end of it karen i've essentially have a full website report of what these companies were doing and there's seven patterns driving these are b only and i think you and i will largely agree with but i'm interested to hear what you think p g dominance did fifteen companies next time i'll do a bigger sample p g programmatic seo user generated content adjacent category seo product loops community driven distribution and low ad spend yeah where is it on the ad spend from i have to go back and do all that i don't think the ad spend one is right yeah but what's interesting is like it's driving a deep wow so if you go into near zero ad spend it's trying to find percent of traffic coming from ads i think is what it is it's not doing actual ad spend so because this room this is traffic not customers versus as customers it probably look very different but wanted to do a breakdown here so like linear it has really high direct traffic you're seeing a bunch of interesting like interactive ways to look at cool data right and if i am looking to grow there are some tactics that i could consider right yeah reverse engineering companies is a super cool long research in general is just such a solved problem you can paste yeah anything that's external you can get i think this is a really good example what i had perplexed computer is i had to basically build a skill of what great product marketing looks like then i had it crawl the hubspot website for all of our products and then i had it use that skill to audit how we were doing and basically it's like hey our big time product pages are doing really well it's our feature kinda second tier product pages where we could have a lot of improvement and like kieran for example i think this probably true for almost every company yeah right yeah but it's something about seeing in this way yeah yeah where you're not having like the person who's doing the work doing some on it and you're gonna have it bias it's like i think you and i and the entire product marketing team could just sit around and look at this and be like oh yeah this kinda makes sense and there's some some obvious areas where it's like oh maybe some of these have been lower priority features and maybe some but like sales forecasting and analytics like we should make those a lot better right let's go make those better they should be a lot better because we should just automate the creation of them exactly and so what i think is really cool is that it i asked it to build an out a ranking algorithm and score everything and so it was able to give us that ranking tell us what we're doing well and i think look at what our weaknesses are don't you agree with all of these yeah i think this is really good because thank you for this for this to another agent who actually goes off and fixes and based upon this correct and it outlines some methodology but this is to say if you're running a team especially now you can have incredible insight into the work you're doing and in your team's doing without having to spin like literally your entire weekend going through stuff manually which i think was the alternative up until now yeah yeah i think what's coming out in twenty twenty six is like such a huge step up jump up step up in terms of the tools we've had in the past and so there's there's a few other things two kieran one is that all of these tools cloud code cloud code work man per complexity everything they're about connecting data from lots of places and so per complexity just like all the others have all these awesome connectors like you just connect all of your hubspot data right and start going to town with how you wanna visualize your email data all of that like that's that's pretty cool look that's pretty awesome we have the tool right like there's just no more tool and i suspect the average person use we have way more product than the world could use at this point yeah i think the thing that is hard is how do you start to fit it into your workflows or how do you change the way that you work changing your habits is the harder problem to solve today then actually the tune is amazing like complexity is amazing i'm looking at it thinking why there's so much i could do here i spend a lot of my time in cloud code we love man but a hard to like go back and continue to use it even though i have it on my telegram on my phone open claw we have to come back and do an open claw episode with some of the marketing use cases just crazy what's interesting kieran is that we're starting of at the point where the technology is no longer barrier the like operation the implementation that using of the technology is becoming the problem that is the problem and i guess before we close out here i think it'd be helpful to our audience if we try deposit some ways to do this like i will tell you something i was doing last night you can tell me if i'm a crazy person or not we have glean here at hubspot you know which allows you to like access all of your internal data with ai in a really semantic like ai search kinda way right kieran i was trying to back into all of the roles on the marketing team and the core skills in those roles so that we could then create skill md files for all of the skills for each of those roles like i think one of the places you would start is like if you're a team of two people record the work that you do on a daily basis of video put that in gemini and i or get the transcript to put it in claude or something have it tell you what type of skills you need and then work to iterate and build those skills so that you can do the work you're doing much faster much more efficient that to me seems like one of the most obvious things that nobody's doing that we will all be doing like six months from now yeah do you agree with i think actually lumen yourself doing work and use it that as a transcript to build ai workflows from actually great we do that somewhat internally where we take looms like literally just do work and that rate yourself doing work and you can turn that into skills and workflows the other thing i would suggest that's kind of a following on from yours is do one at a time because you could also have fifty skills available to but then you have to get into the habit of intricate integrating those into your workflow and that's the hard part i think people struggle with is changing your your behavior is default into using those skills when you have to do that task and so for me what i tell people is you know do one workflow at a time you know build skills build the things you need and then when you go to do that workflow try to start to default to the ai way of doing it and just go work workflow workflow workflow workflow rather than i think what a lot of folks are doing is just building things like they'll build build build they'll build but they're not like using them in any meaningful way and i think that's going to be one of the outcomes we see for a period of time where it's so easy to build stuff there's gonna be more things being past around within companies than anyone can actually use and so you have to start to like do one workflow at a time and make sure that you're using those things and they are helpful for me you have to use those things too kieran because you have to iterate on them and make them better better yeah i think it's one of those things where it's like cool let me build this thing right and which is what you're saying but now it's like no i need this thing to be really really great let's say have a product marketer and i want a skill to do my first draft to product copy right like i probably need to work on that skill for like twenty to forty hours right i need to give it all the work i need to question it i need to give it my point of view i need to do all of those things then i need to test it and basically that skill is not good enough until you can run it on a new product and basically have no changes yeah and until you're like oh my gosh this is like ninety nine percent of the way there yep it's not good enough yeah and you shouldn't actually roll anything out beyond like one individual human until it gets to that point like you sure have like a big repository of skills until it gets to that point i don't think yeah one of the things you can look at is as number of edits to see how good your skill is yeah and if you have a curve you have to get the curve right down to like minimal amount of edits and i still think a lot of it comes back to there's gonna be this messy metal where it's really easy to do it first thing and then you're like oh this is like great claw just built it all for me or per built though for me and i'll just start to pass it around whereas all of the value will become like i'll use this repeatedly and iterate and make it better with the ai and i think that's gonna be the real value is like intricate integrated into workflow use it every single day how do i make this much much better and make that a systematic way of working yep maybe drop us a comment if you would like us to do you know a show on recording your work flow turning that into a skill and what this process is like it might be valuable but i don't know for sure so if you think that'd be valuable show drops of comments that if it is we'll do that and kinda show you kinda yeah soup to nuts what what that would look like to do it but i think your advice is right here and that it's about focusing and not spreading yourself too thin using too many tools and not building too many low quality like that skills being stuffed junk in the world right yeah which is ai swap was one thing ai clutter is the new thing yeah yeah like it just so much clutter of ai your life and your relax although we've been doing all over glass yeah yeah it all looks pretty great like i said dopamine head alright like you get these dopamine heads i made not no one's actually using it and i'm not using it but but cover skill was like my fifth iteration of a book cover skill yeah yeah right i'm like and it still probably needs like three more iterations to like really really be good refine it and the last couple of things i would say before we close out the show here and is that complexity computer is only available complexity max which is two hundred bucks a month so it is expensive it is only available on desktop cannot use it on mobile yet which has been a real hindrance for me i really want the mobile use case and there are some tips that i asked around how to use it well and it's basically like hey go and give it complex tasks and use the connectors all the stuff we talked about but i would ask per complexity or claude how to use it specifically to the core problems you have in your role to get a little inspiration if you're using it or coworker man anything else i would be really focused on how you were using one of these super agents yeah like ask to build you an onboarding and plan exactly so good alright this is fun shout complexity i think they build a really good product i'm excited for this super age of battle to keep going and we'll see everybody real soon on the next episode of marketing screen

okay guys i'm sitting here after watching james dick the foreign marketer build out an entire inbound marketing campaign in cloud code with landing page with lead magnet with incredible positioning in and he took him thirty minutes my mind is pretty blown he shared tips i really didn't expect him to give away incredible skills that i myself took note of and i'm gonna to steal this episode is gold for marketers who do not wanna get behind who want to figure out how they can start to use claude code to super chart their own work and better yet if you want everything james talked about on this show you can get it right here in the show notes just click on the link that's all yours to get all of that and more on this episode of marketing against the green here's a quick word from hubspot hubspot helped solve a big problem they needed to move fast to produce trending content but their marketing team was stuck waiting on engineers to code every single email campaign now they use hubspot customer platform to email real time trending content to millions of users in just seconds the impact three times more engagement double the content creation wanna move faster like tumblr visit hubspot dot com alright welcome to the show with james you are the mind behind the born marketer kind of the person that is pushing by market and showcasing in how you can actually do a ton of marketing through cloud code skills and one of our most requested shows that we have kind of put off because we wanna do to come commands start doing it is a cloud code this is what everyone wants to know how do i use cloud code how do i use it for my work how do i use it from mark what's all this magic that i fear online about people using clock code to do amazing things and so welcome to the show because you're gonna give us a lesson and how to do that yeah thanks for having me you know my goal here is to show people how cloud code can kinda become like their default place to get work done and that ranges from marketing data analytics working with external apis and tools and then being able to deploy things onto a website so kip and i are cloud code converts we are pretty obsessed with cloud codes we are also pretty excited by the show but for the person who is kinda starting to get themselves familiar with cloud code their question is probably can just do everything you're about to show me in claude and using skills in claude so why don't we give us a little introduction on what is the value of cloud code and when would i use that as a market tier to do job like what's the functionality that unlocks a ton of things for me so cloud code is a coding agent that lives on your local machine so it has access to everything on your computer it can read write search files perform a bunch of different functions very very quickly and it's fine tuned with different capabilities to write code effectively to search code bases and to understand how to interact with like third party tools so claude desktop has been evolving a little bit i don't know if you've seen claude c come about yep but that's starting to get some of the same capabilities as cloud code in a friend way but it's not quite as advanced yet cloud code is really for you know the power users if you will so you wanna build a website you wanna build an application you wanna do marketing work and deploy it cloud code is the way to go it can access tools in the command line so you know if you wanna access your github repo or something like that you know github and these other third party tools have tools that are optimized to work in the terminal environment where cloud code lives so cloud code can interact with tools in a very efficient way and access the data push read and write to those as well one of the other things i think you mentioned this but a good example would be if you were building in a marked in research still in claude it would be doing all of that research through a cloud whereas if you build out a cloud code you can give it access to multiple apis in the environment so i say hey but you can use x you can use complexity you can use catch t you can use all of these different apis to gather research from a bunch of different places for that skill and so just gives you way way more functionalities capabilities yeah yeah for sure and then you can build specific skills on how to utilize apis and other tools to the most effective ways so like fire crawl is one of my favorite tools to have integrated into cloud code yeah per complexity is also great yeah those are really the two tools that i recommend people start with is per complexity and fire crawl if you wanna understand what your competitors are doing crawl their websites find gaps in the market you know those are the two tools that really start to unlock a lot of those workflows for you we just dropped a free claude code guide where james is giving you his four workflows and twelve prompts this guide shows you how to create your own landing pages build interactive lead magnets email sequences and even shows you how to find your competitors gaps all without writing a single line of code get it right now click the link in the description now let's get back to the show now james i think a lot of people were watching this and be like oh that's fine james you're an expert developer this is easy for you to say i've never been in a terminal before i've never done all of this is that true did you come from a development background like how the heck did you get started doing all this yeah i mean i'm a startup guy and a marketing guy and you know i've been working in apps and websites and things like that and running marketing campaign since around twenty eleven twenty twelve i didn't touch a terminal until about a year ago and i first got started kinda playing with you know the typical kind of vibe coding tools like rep and lovable and things like that yep but it left a lot to be desired for me i wanted more control i wanted to do more and as these agents started to improve i started testing cloud code i saw a bunch of stuff happening on x as well and i was like i really have to learn this and i figure out how to harness it so at first it felt super uncomfortable like again i had never touched the terminal i had never opened cursor anything like that before but you know to me it's just about like finding a small initial project and beginning to get your hands dirty and once you start to work with it you start to understand sort of what you've been missing and it's a real eye opener once you just tinker around what was the first use case you built in cloud code that kind of unlock i feel like there's this magic moment for a lot of how we use it ai where you're using your tool like that for me cloud code i built this skill that was able to like go through and parse imagery of a thing and then do to research and then i did a bunch of research and then create a strict strategy so plate is a skill that allows you to actually take screen grabs and i was like holy smokes this feels like living in the future when i got kinda make super addicted to being able to build these kind of incredible skills to do this work what was the first one that you built when you work felt like you were kind of working in a different time the first thing that i did was build a landing page being able to one shot a beautiful landing page to me was like my first eye opener you know i've run marketing agencies and things like that in the past and i would always have to work with developers or go find you know a front end designer or something like that you know to be able to do this type of stuff for me so what i realized i could build and deploy like a high quality landing page i was like wow this is amazing i don't have to rely on someone else i can just do this now whenever i want to so that was step one and and that's typically kind of the first test project that i tell people to start with go and build a landing page because to build a landing page there are other steps and research steps you can do which we'll get into but you also have to begin to think like a developer and start to set up a developer environment so maybe you set up github right and you have version control and you code up this landing page and you learn how to push it to github now it's there so next i wanna figure out hey how do i deploy something then i might go and link github to ver or net or something like that and then i hit go in the terminal and i have a live website in a matter of minutes that was really the first step and i started to learn how to kinda connect and orchestrate these systems so that you know i could move from just kinda working on my local machine to putting something out into the wild and now like all my websites like i've built myself like you know the by marketer dot com and things like that i've done all of that with cloud code we've got you know lead magnets i have a saas on there now i sell skills i've got links and landing pages for my community a programmatic seo strategy all of that is done right from the terminal so why don't we get into it why don't we show some of your skills in action and how you kinda of use the tool let's do it so to get started let me go ahead and open up the terminal and this is kind of the scary part don't be scared don't be scared though don't be scared everybody it works in natural language just like your normal l so i use a terminal called ghost and it's very clean it's very fast i've used cursor and things in the past but i let my agent write all the code and i don't even read the code you know so i don't need to see the file systems and the file structures and things like that that's kind of noise to me i just wanna be able to chat with cloud code so to get caught up here i call cloud code hey let's come up with just like a new idea for saas and we're building kind of like a linkedin command center it came up with that idea i said okay cool build the landing page it built a landing page and what i just showed you is what it came up with the first skill to make a beautiful landing page to consider is ant philanthropic front end design skill so i'm sure if you've seen vibe coded projects vibe coded websites things like that you can notice the ai patterns the gradients the purple colors the same fonts everywhere the front end design skill explicitly tells quad code to avoid those sort of ai slot patterns and create something unique so that's how we coded up this landing page and it took just a couple minutes for cloud code to do it and deploy it on my local machine and just for everybody watching i i want to actually just double down on skills we've talked about them some on the show but you know lots of new people watching today probably where skills are literally a file a skill dot m d file a markdown file and james i think of skills is like a list of very expert level instructions to apply in a specific situation in which instead of having to do a bunch of one off directions or research or anything else it's almost like i have a friend who's a designer they gave me their best advice i put it in a document and then ai goes and axe as if they had a lot of the same skills that designer has is that like a good way to think about it you have another definition that's the right way to think about it and we'll also show some other ways to think about it as we get into using these skills but yes i typically explain it as hey this is an instruction manual for how you want an ai to handle a task and when i build skills i go and i understand how the best in the world complete a certain task and i ask claude code to build a skill around it and then i go and look at references because cloud code and ai has to know what good actually looks like and then i implement guard rails do's and don'ts you know things like that and this is a persistent instruction manual that lives in your project that cloud code knows when to utilize based on your prompt so skills are a way to level up your workflow almost instantly there's a lot of skills out there that you can use you can also create your own through some of these workflows that we'll look at here and could you just move take us through how did you get this skill and then how do you tell that skill to create this page like if you could actually show us the prom because yeah people james are probably already struggling like how's claude in this like weird terminal thing he's talking about right so like give us a little of the foundational you're ahead of everybody we wanna go back to the beginning a little bit i got you so basically everyone has a terminal on their computer i just installed one called ghost it's just a nice looking terminal and just open that terminal and typically when you interact with a terminal outside of cloud code you need to know all these like commands that a developer might know so don't worry about that just go to google or go to your favorite ai and say how to install cloud code and you're gonna get a command that you can go and copy and paste right into that terminal window so i'm just searching for cloud code install command and i'm gonna grab that and we'll plug it in it's going to go and it's going to install packages it's gonna access cloud code and then it's going to ask me to authenticate or to log so cloud code is successfully install that's all we had to do we went and search for the install command we copy and pasted of that into a terminal and the clock code is installed so all you have to do now is type claude and hit enter okay so i trust that cloud code can access my folders on my computer i'm gonna hit okay and cloud code is up and active now that's as easy as it is to install log code so i'm logged in already but if you're not logged in you will be prompted to authenticate with your claude or philanthropic account i subscribe to a claude max account it's like two hundred dollars a month yes it is a little pricey but i've never run out of tokens and i'm on this all day long you can also go to ant drop console and get an api key to authenticate with the easiest way is if you subscribe to claude just select claude account with subscription you hit enter it'll open up a window and you just sign in and that's it not hard not intimidating not hard pretty simple okay so now on once you're signed in now you can think about these things called skills yep and so kieran h category a great question like how do you actually use them how do you get them in here how the heck is it there are a number of skills out there available like on the web so the front end design skill as an example and t it created that that you can go and search for skill directories for cloud code and you can find a bunch there's some free marketing skills out there too if marketing is your focus a couple that i use i use cloud code a lot for development i have one called super superpower that i found that's really amazing and that helps me you know spec out different tasks as a non code cloud code kinda guides me through the workflow that it's doing and and things of that nature the skills that i really focus on are the ones that i created that i have on the by marketer com and i need these skills so that it removes all the guest work from having to know how to interact with skills so if you wanna install skills typically it's like a github command or in the case of my skills it's a zip folder you download a zip folder you drag it into this little chat box and cloud code will unzip it it will install it into your workspace and then you have things like this available what so i'll i'll just give you a demo yeah please this is called writing in and into the command line so so i mentioned that skills can go beyond an instruction manual and what i mean by that is we'll see an orchestra skill fire up here so this orchestra skill will guide us through various skills to use to execute marketing campaigns i don't even have to know like what questions to ask i don't have to know what good looks like because that's encoded in the rest of the skills too now the biggest blocker for getting the most out of ai that i find is people don't know what questions to ask and they don't know what good looks like i'm trying to remove that friction when you install new skills into claude code so i fired up the orchestra skill i just said hey let's use the orchestra skill to get going when you install these skills they'll also show up as slash commands so if you type a slash command and you hit orchestra you hit enter it'll fire it up you don't have to ask it anything now what it's done already is it's understanding what we have in the folder that cloud code is active in so when you fire up cloud code you tell it hey i wanna start a new project let's call it linkedin growth saas or whatever it's called it'll create a folder on your computer okay the cloud code is kinda logged into or has access to and then when you say build a landing page it'll build an html document or file and we can open that like on our machine and that's kinda what cloud code is working within so it looked at that html file that i showed you earlier that we had open called forge and it's like oh this looks like a linkedin growth saas we have a landing page built what are we actually trying to produce for this demo and it's saying what's the primary goal for this session and there's a few options that the orchestra scale is giving me as saying do we wanna build a marketing system work on positioning find a unique angle right conversion copy for the landing page do we wanna generate leads content like a lead magnet concept landing page copy and email sequence we wanna work on a content strategy a launch workflow or just show off the skills live so i'll let you guys decide like what direction do you wanna go down and just on the orchestra skill so it's kinda like an onboarding to ai skill like it needs whatever's is in the folder can onboard you on two things that you can do for that folder it's gonna call other skills then that can do all these different things or you have to like install them separately so all the skills that i use are like one package it it installs it into the workspace and then the orchestra skills the one you fire up first the orchestra skill knows what skills are available for all kinds of different use cases so it routes you to the skill to get the job done based on your goals great i know what kids doing tonight yeah yeah more skills we wanna do a generate leads content number two okay so i'm just gonna literally hit two and push enter also not hard not no not hard typing to hitting in enter it's a possible thing for everybody to do okay so i think the easiest way for folks to do this is going to be downloaded the zip file and just drag and dropping just on github it's a repository where you can store code you can host things there it gives you life links you can test that and then once you've installed github with cloud code you can basically pull those things into your workspace your local workspace i realized this morning i was talking to someone that cloud code and there's people who are using it are just not familiar what github even is yeah yeah so just search like cloud code skill github or something like that you'll find something you could search marketing skills on github whatever it is you want and just ask claude code hey i i found this on github give it the link say hey install this it'll do it it knows how to work with github cloud code is the ultimate you can just do things if you just if you just like i don't know but i want to have a skill i wanna do this thing how do i do it you keep asking it will keep pointing you in new and different directions until you get there yeah and you know a very simple helpful tip too is framing up the conversation with quad code you know hey i'm a beginner here guide me through like i know nothing technical i don't even know what github is tell me what to do tell me the most effective way to work with you and you know every project when you work with cloud code has a cloud dot m d file yeah i'm exactly add that to the cloud d file so you know how to talk to me and guide me through these steps as a non technical person and cloud code will work with you based on that md file so that you know there's not as much guess work yeah so the cloud d file is like you can basically give it a personality and the way you're working with you and you can do that at a global level and say hey i want you to work with me across all these projects or you can do it that at a project level and that has a huge unlock in how you actually personalize all this to the way you work yeah exactly and another note on the cloud d file is it's kind of like the soul of the project yeah yeah so anytime you get something done say hey make sure the claude d files updated yeah so that when you fire this up again there's memory of where you left off what you're working on what your priorities are i often say things like hey what'd you learn from our session today how did we work together what worked what didn't how can we improve next time save that to the cloud d file so really what you're doing there you're almost creating a self improving system where your employee which is cloud code is learning how to work with you more effectively every time you fire it up yeah you know what what's also amazing about the cloud that i've d file is it makes intelligence shareable so i was doing this internal use case with cloud code and cloud code internally as connected to all of our systems like snowflake cup hubspot everything and so i went into plan mode work with it did have these bunch of hypothesis and then i was gonna start to do some analysis and pull stuff from lockers snowflake like in places there's a person in helps hubspot rich who's much better way better and more advanced than me at how to do cloud code for analysis so he just like give me his cloud dot md file and i just pull them through git and then i have all of his like intelligence tailor and how that will work for me and so it's like kinda interesting because it makes intelligence shareable it's like pretty amazing and how quickly you can just share that with others absolutely you know the great thing about skills like you're mentioning is they're very portable all it is is a dot d file yeah so i can take that dot d file i can use it in my open claw if you're using open claw i can use it in you know codecs which is open ai coding agent i can take that md file and i can throw it into cloud desktop you know so they're they're very portable and they're just simple documents it's nothing nothing crazy before we continue let me tell you about a podcast i love marketing school marketing legends neil patel and eric sue bring you daily actionable digital marketing lessons learned from years in the trenches marketing school delivers bite sized marketing wisdom you can implement immediately whether you have a new website or you're an established business you'll learn the latest in seo content marketing social media email marketing conversion optimization and general online marketing strategies that work today they just did a great episode called ten seo lessons that still work in the ai era listen to marketing school wherever you get your podcast podcasts and james we should call out right now that i think you're given everybody a bunch of skills and everything if you're watching the show you can tell everybody about it real quick but click the link in the show notes below yeah on youtube and you're gonna give away a bunch of cool stuff yeah i've got a full like playbook that you know kinda guides you through like what is claude good for marketing what are use cases how do i think about skills and i've also got a free skill in there one of my favorites it's like a a copy skill that basically encodes like a hundred years of direct response copywriting and elevate it for like today's internet it's got persuasion and psychological principles built into it and it's been a big unlock for me personally why don't we do that one because i am a lover of old worldly copywriter from the nineteen love hers gordon lewis man yeah oh it's he's he's my old school copywriter of favorite i always talked about that guy here about the original m and m strap line they melt in your not in your hands that was like from nineteen fifty one and just a testament a great copy that it's still the strap line in twenty twenty six like it's seventy five years old yeah true copywriter writers is a timeless the skill but let's they i can replicate it yeah so when i built the direct response copy going and kinda give you an idea of what's in there i went and researched all of the principles behind you know breakthrough advertising and and yeah hopkins towards all those folks very first thing i did with ai way back when i it first came out i like the very first version of i took all the old pdfs from all the old copywriter and built a course with me as a aging given the course it was all ai generated given point you as subscribers just to the test and there's was finally like guy we know what i'm about for and this is like old hitch right and slack me and he was like dude you seem so depressed in this course and i'd like wow being so i'm aren't offended that you think got could've have been me so we got some skill stuff here yeah we got some skill stuff here so you know i i did ping that orchestra skill and it gave us a couple sequences we pick number two if you remember focusing on like lead generation yep and gave us a plan so first we're gonna go and find a differentiated angle and research competitors we're gonna take that data and then we're gonna create a compelling lead magnet or opt and offer around that winning angle and then we're gonna rewrite the landing page copy with a direct response copy skill and then we're gonna build a welcome sequence based on the lead magnet when people give us their email address so we can just fire that up and it's gonna run through all of that for us i also opened up what exactly is in that direct response copy skill this is a very high level summary but you know it's got capabilities for landing pages sales pages emails add copy social posts etcetera each with format specific constraints it's got headline formulas that generates multiple variations all kinds of different techniques that help produce great copy so but let's go ahead and kick off the system and we'll see what it comes up with and we can kind of vibe around on it another couple of the tips that i think are really good that people should do is i know one of the things i've started love doing that i did it for one of yours and greg's episodes because i was like deep into how other people use cloud code for a while and i would put on one of your youtube episodes and then i would give the transcript to claude and anytime you would say something and i was like oh i would love to put that i was like hey tell me what james said about this and like give me three ways and i could do this sort of and so that being a companion to how you want content really be amazing and so that's one way i use it the only thing i do is dude if you wanna learn cloud code you're doing a lot of this and i can't listen to it all but i can go get your transcripts and create a folder just of everything you've created and then ask it to create like the james course and club code i know like people know that you can just rapidly learn this stuff for me i think it's beneficial to see and how someone works as well like in their terminal but a couple of tips if you really wanna try to accelerate your learning yeah great tip yeah i agree so i found this interesting here and i think this is worth sharing so i ran the positioning angle skill and the first thing that it looked for was a brand profile so we wanna make sure we have information about our brand and it said hey there's not one created yet i'm gonna go and look at competitors so it fired up the fire crawl mc automatically that's coded within the skill so hey when you need to go competitors and build out a brand profile go and find who else is in this market so it's saying let's go find linkedin personal brand growth saas tool competitors and all this other stuff so it's going around the web it's scraping information about these it's looking at these websites and it's still going but yeah it's it's going and finding all the information out there in our market that's relevant to what we're trying to create here maybe we'll i'll touch it one thing while it's doing this here that might be useful as well is i think one of the blockers and you mentioned it actually right at to start which is the good thing about this skill is it gives you ways to start it's kinda like an app right it gives you like onboarding screen one of the struggles is ai for the most part is automation right it's like automation you only would have imagined when you were a kid that was possible but it's someone automation and to do automation you have to have a systems mindset you actually have to be able to think through what will i even start with you're not from a engineering and background you said so maybe you've always had this maybe you developed that one are some tips for people to kinda develop that mindset i think that's a great question so when i started vibe coding and stuff i also got pretty deep into the node based workflows right yeah like and it in workflows and things like that and that began to teach me how to think in sort of these like linear workflow based systems so right that was kinda stage one but then i realized early on and and i kinda ruffled some feathers like on x i was like innate in and node based workflows are gonna totally die because agents with their access to the right skills and tools is the future all the innate end people were like no that's never gonna happen but really what you have to think about is less about systems engineering and more about what are the things that i'm giving a really smart agent access to yes and and and when i provide it with the right prompt will that agent be able to go be the systems thinker for me right what i do is i go through manually and do it just go back and forth and prompt and rep prompt give it different apis give it different tools until i get to the output that i with taste judge as awesome and then once i get there i say hey review everything that we did in this session turn that into a skill there's the system yeah i love that yeah so the way that you think in systems is just about learning to work with the agent until you arrive at the output and then let it decide how to encode that and how to turn that into a reproducible result yeah yep one thing you're getting at there and i think about it often is we had in logan was the pm for the ai studio on was a great episode and i was like what's one tip you can leave our audience with and he says ai can do way more than you think yes and you said there with that i don't think people really still have clicked with them which is had a conversation get it to a bunch of things and then say you create the skill you just do that and then can do that it can one shawn skills right that's why there's skill like reason with like a billion different skills yeah yeah exactly so the big unlock is really learning how to work with the agent well i mean you you don't have to know anything else honestly which is kinda crazy and scary at the same time so back to the outputs here real quick so it analyzed the entire landscape of linkedin growth saas tools and stuff and but went and pulled the competitor messaging it identified what everyone else is saying and then what's under exploited territory like white space that nobody owns so it also did a market assessment and thinking back to those old school copywriter it identified the the market awareness or sophistication so the market's crowded ai powered is dead skepticism is high so what's the transformation that we want to provide within this unique angle that we have so from posting randomly and hoping to running a system that produces real business outcomes so i think that's kind of interesting because all these tools kinda generate a lot of ai s or whatever and you know how does that result in actual outcomes i can measure so the mechanism operator grade analytics and content studio in one suite that focuses on signal noise so based on that it recommended some unique angles that we should focus on in our copy and in our positioning so it's got a recommended one here it says statement linkedin growth isn't a content problem it's a systems problem forge the operating system operators are frustrated with random posting they've tried the tools they want a system not more features framing it as infrastructure versus a content tool changes who raises their hand headlines stop treating linkedin like a slot machine run it like a system so it's got a few others some really good ones but in the interest of time we'll just tell it to go with its recommended angle and we can see how it routes us to the next step what's you know kieran you've used a word around cloud code that i've heard others use and i think james is kind of applying addicted it's you you kinda get sucked into the progressive and like near endless possibilities of it and it to me cloud code seems like something that is like very paradox because there's such a fear and concern about getting started but once you get started it seems near like limitless on the other side and i can't remember anything impacting like business or marketing quite this way in my time at least yeah that's the right word you just have a new skill that feels like there's an unlimited amount of things you can do and it's just addictive like it's still addictive i was never like a video game player then i know video game players and they play a lot of video games i suspect it feels similar like dopamine hits it's like just continually again when these dopamine heads like wow wow wow i was amazing i kinda wrote about this that ai could definitely cause like many burnout nights much more rapidly like your brain gets overloaded bit loaded because you're just cranking through so much work i i get ai migraines i just had to get a new monitor now i have like in my typical workday i have six or seven different you know terminal windows running at any given time working on different projects well i've seen people online being like that they feel stressed if they're like they don't have multiple terminals running if they don't have these agents doing stuff for them all the time because they feel like they're missing out an opportunity yep like that's the far end of what we're talking about everybody watching this it's like you might be afraid to get started the people who are like months in are like the opportunity is so big i have anxiety if it's not constantly building absolutely yes totally relate with that i think i'm starting to understand like again i'm not an engineer by trade but i'm starting to understand like why coding can be addictive you know like when you work with engineers like in a startup up and you're sitting there grinding like all night you know the engineers just plugging away like on their code and when they finally get it to work there's that massive kind of like yeah i did it you know and that in itself is a very addict thing but now these coding agents they give you that so quickly and they make it more accessible to more people and you know i just kinda talk about like sometimes how you know we're all kind of getting that like engineering brain in a sense obviously like great engineers or miles beyond kind of like what i'm able to do but engineers are used to like sitting there and debugging something until it works they're used to banging their head against the wall until they get a breakthrough and you have to kind of embrace that mindset if you wanna get the most out of these tools at the same time you know so real quick it found our positioning angle and i wanna highlight something that's kind of interesting here so in my orchestra skill as we work i have it saving these documents to a folder called brand so it's saving context as we work so it's got our positioning file in our brand folder right now and then it's going to continue adding to that so that we have memory and we can pick back up so when we say hey like create content it can reference that brand folder understand our positioning understand our angle understand who our ic is all that so it's got that sort of memory aspect built in and is that broken into the skill or the cloud dot m file i built that into my orchestra as outputs are created from individual skills it saves the outputs into a brand folder so that it can be re referenced every single time so guy what i need here the lead magnet concepts that it came up with brand context loaded so you see that like before it tries to run this lead magnet skill it goes in references the brand context folder so it's saying what's our voice profile what's our positioning what's our audience what's our learnings we haven't gone through and and done those things yet we could and we could save it to the folder but in the interest of time we'll keep running so it also found competitive lead magnets so like what are all those competitors doing that we went ahead and we identified when we found our unique angle what's overdo what's the gap and the gap is a really interesting concept that i'm constantly looking at so something that ai is very good at obviously is s large amounts of information and large amounts of data and if you just ask it hey like based on everything that you found what's the gap that i can attack like that to me is like such a power prompt because you're ingesting all this information and you have context here and ask it to find the gap and ask it how you can exploit it with whatever you're trying to do alright so we have a few different lead magnet recommendations again i'm just gonna go ahead and go with the one that orchestra skill is recommending out of the box which is the linkedin system audit so is your linkedin a system or a slot machine find out in five minutes it's interactive assessment it'll reveal which part of your system is broken the so let's just do you what happened i to see this in get yeah there was an early version of by market and i think maybe this is your early version i don't mean to be like beacon and ill but the first version of v marketing was kinda like mark automation tool like maybe the no error right maybe it was all like these kind of flows it really is like automation where this this really is like marking the clip the vibe marking because you really are just like vibe in oh yeah choose this one she's that one i'll try on that one it's like much more in a flow state yes it's real now you know when we first started talking about by marketing it it was still kind of like a concept in a way i could start to see how like node based workflows could eventually evolve and you know when you see kind of the the automation working you're like hey are are we always gonna be like setting up these nodes and like manually configuring them or is ai gonna get smart enough to to kinda do it for us and you know now with like the latest model releases like opus four point six and and things like that i mean it it's so good at using tools using skills chaining things together you can just sit back and hit a button and deploy marketing estimates so i always had like two laptops i pushing your third life i'm like okay it's doing something here i have to fill that moment i have to fill that time and something else so i kick off and doing something else i on another laptops i use them for different things do you use workload tools anymore wow it's no amazing no not at all all i use is cloud code and codecs so you know for the more advanced folks like typically what i do when i'm working on a project i've got claude code in this side of my terminal and i have codecs on this side of my terminal and codecs runs on chat five point three and it's extremely good at solving bugs that claude code often misses so think of it as having like a senior developer on one side kind of overseeing the other developers work and being able to under stand like what it's working on what's happening in the code base and pinpoint things that it can provide fixes to that's how i use it i call it ai ping pong but i'm always bouncing back and forth between two panes here to use the power of kind of both agents i'll with a great tip okay i'm gonna steal list tips so are you cut and paste in the bugs across terminals you have it connected that you're get and you'll just upload in the changes and don't dial them onto go x you know for a long time just copy paste and now i'm doing more automation with like github and things like that but yeah like just copying and pasting like hey what's the bug you're having let me throw it into codex okay here's the problem i'm facing here's the bug cool here's the root cause here's the fix you know so that's that's kinda how i work and i've noticed that you're able to move a lot faster you don't get hung up as much and you know you you you might notice when you go into a long kinda cloud code chat like it it starts to kind of lose perspective sometimes so codex is like this really smart agent that can take like this ten thousand foot view and think about it without all the context overload in the chat so it's almost like a fresh perspective that can go in and help you solve the problem yeah it's maybe summarize what you dumb because you've done a lot of work we've been like talking about a bunch of been can you just like recap be like really internalize like literally five minutes what work have we done yeah in forty five minutes a we create a landing page for this concept that looks beautiful we researched all our competitors in the market we found a unique positioning angle we started to define our brand we researched lead magnet opportunities that pertains specific to our positioning in our unique angle in the market and we built a brief for our lead magnet and we're gonna go ahead and create a lead magnet awesome so let's just tell it to go ahead and get started on that by the way hear us type and we're not being rude we're typing about how awesome this is type in about this i'm building a skill right now because i'm feeling inspired the data centers are keeping warm with us right now yeah there's a lot of stuff you're showing on like i just wanna actually go try and build this thing and not you give me a lot ton of ideas ke not sleeping in this weekend but wasn't anyway yeah yeah know i'm watch the asking down from the work transcript with this because there's some things in here i need to extract i tonight so right now it's building a fully interactive tool like a micro tool that we can deploy on the site open a tool for a lead magnet yeah like okay let's just go ahead and build like an app that we can put on the website as i love tools and i think tools are great like by marketing use case yes the tools are terrific for seo they're terrific mechanisms to turn traffic into leads or subscribers or whatever they can kind of show sort of a a micro value moment of like the core product that you have also l lim like tools so i've noticed that tools are also beneficial for like you know ranking on chat or you know something like yeah as well so tools are great and you know another thing that i often work on with cloud code is seo optimization you know seo can be technical you know there's a lot to it but guess what when cloud code has access to your code base it can go and solve technical seo challenges or optimize your website for technical seo in a matter of a couple prompts it can go and id eight keywords it can plan out your content strategy it can develop a programmatic seo strategy and launch multiple pages and in one go to target certain keywords so it's a great kind of buy marketing use case that to dig into more of if you're interested in that my brother built b e o cloud code scale that's pretty dope actually we have to come back and show what your open stuff that's the next one i know people yeah i i would tell everybody to drop comments below on like future things we want james to come back on in maybe a few weeks or a month or so in chat with us about people are building pretty cool agent teams and codecs be kinda cool and i think open cloth and you built and post stuff cloth so we built a like a fully kinda interactive lead magnet here so you know start the audit i love quizzes do you have defined content pillars specific topics i haven't even thought about this when you sit down to write a linkedin post how long does it take you to decide what to write about a long time how would you describe your posting cadence sporadic do you have a scheduled time block each week not really do you know what of your post generated the the most reach no idea could you name us insight from your linkedin data i don't even look never thought about it i don't know what the outcomes are it's all from scratch with no process whatever so now we're kind of auditing the quiz results identifying the core problems giving people some tips and then we have a call to action to go and sign up for the actual product very cool so you really have like built a entire kind of by marketing campaign from start to scratch in a singular podcast last we were also talking about multiple other topics i think this is a incredible introduction for people on the value of cloud code i think it's a great introduction for how you should start to think about integrating this into your own workflows and i'm glad we waited to cover this the first very episode on here with you because i think you've given a a pretty incredible though from like novice to pretty good in a short amount of time yep and to use one of the tips i gave in real time here we're gonna save this progress in a cloud d file so we know where we left off and where we could pick it up next time and kinda complete the loop very cool did this is awesome you know you're all over than that but where is the best place for people to go and learn these skills from you so i share a lot on x i'm at boring marketer on x so that's the best place to kind of like you know learn and interact i have an online community where you know i get on every couple weeks and we do this exact thing that we just did on this podcast with a group of people we have mentors doing workshops and things like that it's called the vibe marketers you can find all the links on my ex profile they're all there oh you do like a look over your shoulder as you build on that community oh go join off that's involved yeah we call it vibe sessions i just open up kinda behind the curtain show people what i'm working on share learnings we've got a bunch of smart people that are all using these systems for marketing and it's just an amazing place to kind of like learn what people are doing you know to kind push the limits of these tools super cold jake thanks so much for coming on we really appreciate it it was a blast thanks so much everyone you know kirin and i have been doing the podcast for a while now we've been at this for a couple years we love it we could not be happier to be doing this but we wanted to take things to the next level we wanna level up the impact we're having with marketing against the grain so the next step of our journey is something we're really really excited about we're gonna launch the marketing against the grain newsletter and marketing against the grain newsletter is going to be amazing if you are a marketing leader practitioner you're in the trenches do in marketing every day this is for you we're gonna deliver right to your email inbox and you're gonna get all the behind the scenes frameworks practices tutorials from us from guest we have on the show and from people beyond the podcast that we think are gonna be helpful and really have an impact on your day to day week to week doing marketing you're going to love it it is something we've been talking about for a while we're really excited to have it out in the world we've already gotten a hundred thousand marketers who are on this newsletter please join it's completely free we'd love to have you as part of the marketing against the grain community and it's easy you can click the link in the description below or you can head to marketing against the grain dot com slash subscribe

on today's show we're gonna walk through the best autonomous ai agent for marketing that we've seen so far it's gonna be able to run your entire ad campaign do the research create the ads analyze and make the all for less than fifty bucks a month let's get into today's show before we get into today's show here's a quick word from hubspot cutting your sales cycle in half sounds pretty credible but that's exactly what sandler training did with hubspot they used breeds hubspot ai tools to tailor every customer interaction without losing their personal touch and the results were pretty incredible click through rates jumped twenty five percent qualified leads quadrupled and people spit three times longer on their landing pages go to hubspot dot com to see how breeze can help your business grow welcome to this episode of marketing against the grain we are here with patrick haiti and he's the fan of a company called super scale today we're talking all about ads and how you can actually have an autonomous advertising agent to run ads for your business so patrick really appreciate you joining the show today welcome marketing against the ukraine thank you very much for having me super excited to be here so kieran because ads are so fundamental to how most businesses will your b2b or b grow and it's been really hard to make and manage ads since like the dawn of google and meta i think you're seeing a rise of agents and advertising we're gonna dig begin with patrick on that but can you set up for us why advertising and agents in advertising is such a big deal for everyone i think if you go back to the first show we didn't manage that people really enjoyed where we showed the kinda of similar web integration one of the fun things we did is we looked at all of the sites that were losing organic traffic and then look at the correlation of their paid spend and what we're seeing is sites are losing organic traffic because google's being disrupted and more money is flown into paid advertising which is great for google and i wish i thought of that when their stock price was a lot lower twelve months ago buck sixty yeah and so i think market tiers and businesses in general are going to need to get much much better at paid advertising because it's could be much more competitive and one of the things that i think is a true unlock that patrick's is gonna show us is only the businesses with the biggest amount of budget could have a creative paid agency the ability to do incredible ads video learn really quickly and then be able to like create different versions of those alright that was kinda only available to creative paid agencies and with tools like we're gonna go through and patrick gonna show you every business has the ability to have a creative agency that can do their paid ads and not only that i think you're gonna get into this patrick can actually learn and recur get better and that is to me a primary skill that every market tier and business is going to have to master because it's going to become much more important to acquire customers and demand from paid so yeah we could keep talking about pay ads but i think it'd be better patrick maybe if you can just walk us through how you can actually use agents for building paid ads why don't you start that process we'll ask some questions to represent what the viewers might and be thinking as you're going through yeah of course of course yeah so excited to go into this we've really been you know thinking about this from the very beginning right how can we democrat this access to high value really high quality asset creation and it's actually interesting when i just pull up a couple of examples here these are all one hundred percent ai generated if you go into the platform that we've built you have you know a huge variety of templates that you can choose from and all of the content is a hundred percent ai you can create speaking people and all kinds of different ads formats and the way that this looks is if we just look at one of these videos just as as an example seriously costa is not your grandma's newspaper horoscope it uses literal nasa data to map the sky the exact minute you were born so it tells you exactly why you're crying right now or by you and your crush are a total disaster it's honestly kind of rude how accurate it is just download costa and see for yourself so it's really interesting when you think about it right like production like this you would have to start filming you would find an actor and so we've really from the beginning thought about like okay how can we make sure that everyone would get that kind of production quality and what we're diving in next is really how you set up agents that then start producing this kind of ad content for you so she doesn't exist she is not real i can knock and like look her up on linkedin that is a ai avatar and it what's actually interesting is we have this library here which is a character library which grows every week and these are all ai generated people that people use for their ads right they are like humans they have a primary language to speak other languages so the interesting thing is not only do you get this opportunity to have actors that now speak for your product and you produce a video that would have cost you thousands of dollars to produce you can literally even create custom actors for your brand that are perfectly suited right to talk to your audience and so obviously this is one example for ai generated ads but for our biggest customers we see this starting to replace their entire u meta adds stack the reason that we started with this is because this is the most complex format right if you wanna produce a campaign with someone walking the streets of amsterdam you need a whole production team right but no it's very costly and so that's what we started with this format know the platform can do aesthetics can do other video formats but that's what we started with you my one take here as well is if you look at what's happening to marketing and i think ai accelerates this is people wanna connect with other people but i actually don't think it needs to be other people i think if you have an avatar that is the personality of your brand but that avatar is ever present so it becomes the face of your brand and that is like your core person across all these content channels because smaller companies kind afford to like hire a full time creator to be the face of their content on youtube on instagram on all these other channels i do think that we're going to see every brand have a quote quote like sports teams have a mascot exactly i think they'll have an avatar that's the personality of their brand and i wondered you see like when people are doing these ads do they have a persistent avatar that they want to always be in the ads because people recognize it start to you know have a relationship with that person or that digital person yeah that is actually what's happening right so we do see people use to same character over and over again that is definitely something that's happening i think what's even more advanced is that people would then go and say i create a custom character for my brand and so now i have that custom person right that no one else can use right because this was our public library just now and so then you would get to that point of like okay now we really have that custom person that represents our brand and we create content with them can you trademark that wonder does that exist today can you trademark your digital laboratory avatar this actually good question we build a trademark agent and just run that as a service for super scale and all the all the companies out there that'd be a nice little business care yeah we just dropped a free guide that shows you how to produce one thousand ads using eight ai agent workflows patrick is giving us his complete framework and prompts so you can do it in minutes not weeks get it right now click the link in the description now let's get back to the show there are a couple really interesting so obviously we're talking about like avatars and companies having their own avatars which care and i i think you're totally right i i think there are a couple other really important things patrick we should talk like pricing and stuff of super scale in a minute the reason i bring that up is because there's an arbitrage the ability to like buy low sell high that exists here because most small businesses what they've done is they've had to participate in ad channels that are text and image based only and not video based right so they're google adwords words facebook ads linkedin ads that are not video and the cost for those channels are way higher because more people can only play in those channels where the costs and competition on these video channels is still lower because the barrier entry has been higher what you're really doing is taking that barrier of entry away so it kind of the agent doesn't matter the avatar doesn't matter those are features the thing that matters is i now have the opportunity to play in a new channel in a way that isn't crazy expensive and isn't gonna take a ton of my time which is really really powerful for anybody out there who's thinking about their advertising strategy yeah and i think the important piece to look at is you know this is how we started we started only you know a year ago with super scale but what i showed you just now is the templates that we have in a platform that you can use and you can start clicking together your ads what we noticed is okay that's great right now you have enabled someone to produce content or ads that they weren't able to produce before now i think we are already in the next stage of the revolution and the next stage of the revolution is you don't even have to produce these ads anymore by clicking buttons you just tell you agent to do it and we've been building this agent right so is interesting we saw this trend in the platform where you know people were starting to use the templates and there were creating static creating video for some people aesthetics works they were using templates for things that the templates weren't even you know really meant for so they were creating you know assets for their online store for example so if we think about like different cases right so this would be now someone with an online store right so we have the ability to sync all of our products in their from shopify we've already built that so the platform has the entire context on your shopify store it's very cool right so this is how it could look for an online store we saw the example for a mobile the app just now but if we just go for example we we take a popular example right air airbnb b so so far you would have to go into this template library and think about like okay which ads should i build you know should i build the video should i do static but people you know if you really wanna create incredibly powerful systems you wanna go into that agent mode right and so the way that this looks is now we've built this layer on top of our platform where you can literally just tell the platform what you need and it's gonna build the entire thing for you so for example i'm just gonna put a prompt in here you know analyze the top ten static from my competitors of the last seven days write a report on it which i can share with my manager extract the most important visual templates and creates twenty static ads for me now this could be static ads it could be like think about which ads to create so now if we submit this if you think about this prompt this is literally at least one day of work maybe even more right so you would have to do the entire research you would have to understand what's happening you would have to look at the competitors you find all these ads then you can maybe look at like twenty ads per competitor because you only have you know one or two days to do all of this and this system is now gonna do this work which is kind of like two days in five minutes so it's gonna pla the ads from home to go booking dot com right like we are talking about here airbnb b so it's gonna find to competitors it's gonna search the ads it's even gonna mark ads which have variations right so the important thing to see is that we are in a revolution now where the ai models are getting so incredibly powerful that this system right now as we speak it can look at hundreds of ads it can find you based on one prompt the one ad you should build it can analyze how it should be built and it can build it and we are very close to like what can it can actually literally launch them on matter for you and then what happens is that not only have you replaced the entire production capability you now have a marketing function on your fingertips right and that's really i think the next level where all of this is going now it's gonna start writing the report and then once the report has finished it's gonna start producing the ads immediately so you could literally just grab your coffee come back you have twenty ads ready and it's not random ads but it's actually already thought about which ads to build for you so this is really where we are thinking this is gonna go in the long term patrick obviously somebody is watching this me like oh well that's pretty like what is it cost to you something like this was one question people are gonna have watching this yeah so we're actually gonna roll out the agent functionality on our forty nine dollar per month plan every plan basically has some features that you have access to and credits the credits are for ad production i think this is pretty similar to other ai tools as well yeah we wanna really democrat size the access to high quality marketing so we wanna give people the opportunity to say i now have this incredibly powerful agent which can help my business find the next winning ad build it for me launch it for me and iterate on what i've done right so this system will be able to connect you to your facebook account read your ads analyze your data and then it can kinda start being recur right i think in my mind where we are going is you know we used to have like ai tools which were like tools where you would go in and you would do a certain task and then you would get an asset back now i think we are entering the world of you have an agent so now you have kind of a coworker worker you talk to the coworker the coworker does work for you yeah and then you have an agent team right now you have five coworkers workers and i think then you will have autonomous agents that's the last stage i can currently see we will see what happens after that right but now what i could do for example so if i like the result of this task i could tell the agent run this every day and it's gonna just schedule it for itself right and send you a sec message when it's done and so now it feels like okay you know we have the ad agency to create a function and the research on our fingertips now what it's done is it's finished the report and it's without me doing anything it's now starting to build the ads and it's so thinking about the report that i just wrote and it's now gonna build the ads for airbnb based on the research it did so this is where we think the world is really going right in terms of social marketing because this can enable someone literally to create one hundred ads for your meta ads account within thirty minutes and not random creative but there's actually behind every ad there's five hundred ads that you did as research right right and we think this is really what's gonna take people to the next level so when you think about this the agent is going to be pretty incredible at create the ads it did the research it's gonna be able to create the ads i think for smaller companies this is such a huge unlock because i think for so many businesses i can tell you they are just not able to do this kind of stuff today they don't have the resources and so they're probably running ads that cost way more than they should and perform way worse than they should and so using a platform like this is actually an immediate unlock in terms of their ability to grow and i'm wondering let's say in a world where everyone is kinda using your tool to create their ads like smaller companies they've made it part of their team like part of my team is this paid agent that's able to think creatively tell me what the right ads to do what do you think is gonna differentiate like the better users is it the ability to like really think creatively about the prompt and what you ask the agent to do how do you think about who will win if they're using your tool yeah so it's extremely interesting right we've gotten this question from the very beginning right like what happens if now everyone goes and builds five hundred ads right and and and then how does the world really evolve in that in that scenario i think you know ultimately the way that i think about ai platforms they're a tool they enable humans to be much more productive than they were before now of course with agents you work together with a platform like with a human and i think what will happen is ultimately there's gonna be people that have creative ideas of how to prompt the agent what to look for what kind of trends to look out for and how to best produce the content that they think might be the next trend so that the human idea still matters right i think where marketing is going is kind of where software engineering is today right if you look at software engineering they have agent teams right like software engineers they talk to cursor and other applications lovable and you know just put in what they wanna have and that they get the work result and so that the same thing is gonna happen to marketing and then i think what happens is the person with the creative idea the person with like the good prompting the person that puts the right context that's the person that's gonna win the game using the agents to the best possible outcome and then driving velocity and honestly i think the second factor is simply gonna be what company uses system most right there's obviously gonna be companies that adopt this and run five hundred creative every week and they are just gonna out compete everyone right because especially with the meta algorithm update they are looking for visual differentiation right the ads and so the more ads that you're running the more velocity that you have there is gonna be companies that adopt something like this very early on and they are just gonna be you know out competing everyone right because now you imagine a company that had ten at creative and now they have one hundred now they're gonna learn and test so much faster and you could have one hundred at credits after prompting the system for like fifteen minutes so this is i think where the transition really is happening yeah speed of learn and speed of iteration does the tool allow the person to tweak the ads or edit the ads in any way yeah so i mean now the first ads are coming up right we were just asking for ads on airbnb and so the interesting thing here is like look at the intelligence right so it did research on thinking about you know if airbnb b competes with booking dot com how can i advertise for airbnb now what's special about an airbnb is i can just use it for doing a workstation so it's building the ad for that and what we've done is we wanna kind of highlight that in the product and so when you go here and then you hover you will get this insights that led to this ad and so the system can actually tell you why this ad was built it's like you would ask someone from your team like why you wanna launch this ad right and it can kind of tell you why now if you wanna iterate it you just click here and it's gonna just attach down here right and you can just say make ten more but in different cities right and you would just submit that right and then it's gonna start that task right and so it's gonna become fully conversational right it's literally like you would talk to someone on your team that runs the meta account and your tiktok and your content and you can just connect your slack and then you get a message like hey i finished your ads you know when i have a look at them and you have this super intelligent coworker that it helps you you know do marketing in world since figured eyed ton of research it tried to think about who the competitors were how it could create ads that are differentiated it's tailored one of those ads to be for a specific use type does it strategically tell you anything around you know what kind of targeting is recommended for these ads within meta or other platforms is it kinda being strategic in trying to guide you on how to set these ads up and how to build your targeting and things like that yeah i mean now we have the task running now see now it started to kind of produce more ads but you could ask it exactly that right you could say like okay how would you know go about launching these ads based on your context you know i think the the important part is like if we go to the page here the way that we think about this is like you will have different context that you provide your agent right so you see this number here with a score of eighty mh will have this score somewhere on this page and so this score kind of tells you how intelligent your coworker is i think this is gonna be something really interesting for people to understand right like you can actually teach your system what to do so we have customers that are using the system and so they are putting in like really nuanced information right so there should be a disclaimer on my ad for something please always use this color only use our logo when you do branded ads versus like we use organic content we don't want want our logo to be used and so you put in a little bit of context and again like the system is ten times more useful right and so you get into this loop you know some of our customers they're going in and they are like really training they're literally doing like an onboarding type of fright like you would onboard a new person to your team so they give like more information and the more information they give to the agent the more advanced things are becoming and so then you get a system that's so intelligent that you feel like okay now i have basically fully trained coworker that helps me with my work and i think that's kind of where thinks are evolving can i think that's an important point you've made that we should just reiterate what you're saying is part of the challenge with ai as people don't understand you have to kind of onboard it provide a context like teach things and the more you do that the better it becomes and what you've added in here actually i think this is one of the first times i've seen something like this i think this is really is a how good is your agent at the moment what confidence score do you have in them and then the more you use teach chip provide context it's gonna become much more advanced do you you start with a novice and in your app you can actually see it getting better to become an expert and i think that is super cool yeah before we continue let me tell you about a podcast i love marketing school marketing legends neil patel and eric sue bring you daily actionable digital marketing lessons learned from years in the trenches marketing school delivers bite sized marketing wisdom you can implement immediately whether you have a new website or you're an established business you'll learn the latest in seo content marketing social media email marketing conversion optimization and general online marketing strategies that work today they just did a great episode called ten seo lessons that still work in the ai era listen to marketing school wherever you get your podcast podcasts the way that i think about it is you would never have someone join your team as a human without an onboarding you would not just have someone randomly start working your company and you would not give them any information so if you train just a little bit it is a super coworker it can read one thousand ads in five minutes it can do things that no one no human on your team could do within even a month of time and so you you gotta provide some information now we have set it up in a way that when you sign up right you sign up with the shopify store we already collect your information we read from your brand guidelines right if we look at the brand guide right like we collect kind of the brand colors we have a brand collage we have the logo and we get all of that from your website automatically right so you don't start you know with a score of zero let's say you start with a score of sixty but if you get that score to eighty now your team member is twice as productive you get it to ninety this four times as productive and it's gonna feel like okay perfect i have exactly the help that i need and i think that's where it's gonna go right so when we think about video for example you wanna kind of tell the system like hey you know use certain actors you know i want you to use these kind of people from the library when you produce video and then you kinda teach it things that you would also tell a production agency for example for content or you wanna tell it like hey you know i need to make a winter campaign for my shopify store please look at all the assets and then redo all of them and make a winter asset for all of my products so this i think is where things are gonna go and and you really wanna just educate to agent to be smarter for you and we see the customers that do this most that really have the highest score here they are getting crazy results right like literally we have a customer they're in the tens of millions of ads spent per year they're switching all of their meta ads to a hundred percent ai within this quarter so you know that's really where things are going you know my prediction is by the end of this year all ads across all channels will be a hundred percent ai because you have this superhuman human coworker that could build ads like you would have never even had the idea to build an ad like this right because even with all the research you could possibly do you would not be able to look at ten thousand ads yeah you can move fast and then i think this is what will lead us to the autonomous world right because at some point the agent works at such a level that as a human you will just say look you're you got it right you're better than being at this right this is literally what's happening in software yeah you know like as a software engineer very often you get to this point of like you know you have opus four point six i'll tell you what to do but you got the coding part right yeah and this is how it's gonna be for marketing for sure yeah could you maybe speak a little bit to how the agent is recur getting better because like a great paid marketer you've showed a couple of things and we should run at and look at the ad variations but you've showed it strategically thinking about how i create differentiated ads you've showed it create in the ads into itself it can strategically tell you like okay i've creative ads here's how you should set up all your target in it's basically telling you how good it is at creating these ads because there's an actual score and the last part i guess would be what a great pay marketer really does is recur ingest performance and figure out how to iterating and it better and i think what you're probably gonna tell me is there's just no way for a human to compete your agent because you're just gonna be able to ingest the data and iterate so much more faster hundred percent i mean so look at this competitor research report right so this is a feature that has literally replaced human work and some of our customers they did do this reporting internally at their company today they literally just create the report they click on share the report they have a public link and they can share this link to their manager someone in the team hey you know look at the comparison that i just made you even have the ads linked in the report and you can literally say okay i like this ad or like like you know the division something you can replicate it you attached to the task and you ask your agent to do that now imagine you you know this system has your data and we're gonna launch that right so there's gonna be an integration to your meta ads account tiktok account so now it takes your data it can read your ads now when it can read your ads and your ad data you get to this point where it can look at the ads that you're already running running analysis you would provide some context on okay my cpi should be this i wanna have a you know c not lower than this or higher than this so obviously you wanna provide some training right again you you wouldn't want someone to run your ads untrained so you provide some training some context but once you do that you could be in a situation where you can literally talk to the system and say like okay make my meta ads better what should i do and it has the access to the entire world of what you need which is production research it can do web research reddit research trends research right you can say like okay go and read it find the most recent trends compare them with what my competitors are running find like you know niche ads that are i'm not using yet and recommend me ten ads to launch and it's gonna work for five minutes and and you have that work results on and so i think there's gonna be a motion where you know you have ads that super scale builds then these ads launch then they have a certain performance and it's gonna look at the performance and it's gonna build more ads and so then you get into the recur loop right literally it will feel like okay i'm just observing this system doing things at the moment you still need to prompt but we are gonna roll this out as quickly as we can you know for enabling people to just switch it on kind of autopilot mode that's while you know patrick give this framework here and i use called loop marketing and this agent is basically just doing that like the first step is you express like your brand story your style who your audience is right it's it's basically doing all the research picking the templates doing all that then you're personal it's making a lot of add variations for the different segments you know we call that tailoring in the loop the third step is like amplify you actually distribute you're doing the targeting and placement of the ads and the last thing is you evolve you learn and and you get that recur loop that you're just talking about and that's what you're doing is you're like you're running these you're just looking at the ads and then you're iterating based on like the ad performance and so what you're actually able to do here is like basically run that entire loop framework with an agent and so your limiting factors then just becomes money and time essentially like the time to run all the actual working media to get the data back and how much money you have actually place the media yeah and i think you know if we go back just for a moment just for the full picture right so you know the interesting part for me is we started out kind of democrat the access to certain creative production and we said like okay now you can make a video that you would have never been able to make before now you have that capability which is like okay i can make ads stand alone creative which i wouldn't have been able to make because of course time you wouldn't even have to access right most companies that use super scale don't even have an actor they don't even know who to ask even if they had camera and wanted to make a video or create a static and if you pair that with not only do you have the production capability but you actually also have the entire you know function of analysis and research to think what to build and you bring that together you have the full package right you basically can go and say you know make marketing for my product and it's gonna do it right obviously it should be a bit more specific in the beginning right it's still crazy to think about it but like yeah market my app right it marked my app do it and i have come back in ten minutes and yeah watch what you've done this is where we're yeah very soon you'll be able to just give it a url which is your company it's an extrapolate from that and your product your service you know the company your brand your tone of voice to all of these different things they can go then strategically look at your competitors what ads they're running and start to build the ads and i think you're saying like it's gonna be autonomous where it's gonna ingest the data maybe you sort a cro job and you say like every two weeks i want you to ingest the data and then it will just go and improve its own an ads and you're kinda just like checking in every once in a while you're the ads are changing giving it a budget i think this is incredible i think you've felt the best paid tool that i have seen i think it's amazing i would love to end like what maybe a spicy question here is you're deep in this space you're thinking not just by page or you have a lot of thoughts around marketing and one of the things that we talk about is like marketing used to be this collection of niche teams with deep domain expertise in certain channels or certain you know i had a part of market or you to pay market or are you had an seo and i wonder do you think you need to be a paid marketer tier to use your platform or if you're just a great marketer with ideas this is your paid team if you know what i mean right like paid marketers are really great with data science and you know very analytical but they also have good creativity in the copy in the ad style so what's your thoughts like is this paid marketing teams are probably your no customers so maybe you don't wanna talk about it but do you think in the future this is your paid marker this is your paid team i mean so i think there are two perspectives here right the first perspective obviously is this is giving super superpower to someone that has never done marketing before you can literally create a relevant marketing campaign for your product without any knowledge of how even to do any kind of marketing right because there's some inherent knowledge and templates and production capacity and research baked in so i think it will democrat the access to you know what you can produce in terms of content right we saw that with a speaking video which is difficult to produce and realize and now you can do it with a couple of clicks but you will also be able to have a do research for you and write important and tell you what to do in terms of your marketing but i think there's a second perspective here where what we're seeing is people from experience you know marketing teams that are adopting something like this early they're becoming like the power collaborator of agents that's how i would kind of frame it right they know exactly how to work with an agent what kind of context they should provide how the prompt should look that goes into the task that they're creating and so it will be a booster for people that have knowledge in this space and i think it's gonna be a massive kind of upgrade for their workflow but it's also gonna be an enabler for people that haven't done this before and i think both of them will see an uplift in what they can make happen on a daily basis my question there was not to say does you know the quote unquote what everyone know there's kinda message that a lot of ai native companies i think get wrong which is hey replace your team with this piece of software that's not a inspire message no one really wants to hear that i think there's gonna be more work for marketing than there's ever been right completely agree what i mean is the paid marketer could actually now do paid marketing and maybe that paid marketer because their skill set is like data growth iteration they could take on other disciplines they could actually do your ae and they can do other things because they have agents supported them but i definitely think from marketing there's gonna be more work than ever because distribution is the mode not software as the mode and i think these agents allow people who used to only do this thing to use their skill set to do a multi to different things and this is still part of what they do but they're able to like broaden their scope of stuff that they do i think it's much more inspiring to think about you know how can we build things that enable people to work their best work yes yeah yeah which honestly is how it is in different industries already right i mean you know there's very little software engineers that that got completely you know out placed by coding agents right but there's millions probably hundreds of millions of people at this point that have become poorer houses in terms of what they can build exactly thursday they have these agents right and so now in one year i'm thinking about like there's gonna be amazing ad campaigns that someone will have built that had two ads per month and now they're running one hundred that have all these ideas out there right and that's really kind of like a vision for me to strive towards maybe there's is gonna be someone with a small app small eco com store you know they had a ten people team they had a twenty people team they were competing with nike you know nike at ten thousand ads now they have a thousand themselves right and they can really get traction for their product so something this i think will happen and that's more inspiring story i think in terms of what ai makes possible hundred percent and it's also a great story for small companies because as you said like small companies couldn't believe now compete with everyone else i'd like forty nine dollars and month is nothing for me to be able to start to have world class ads cool this is awesome patrick this is awesome i think i cannot under overstate to everybody the opportunity that's gonna come to every business from making the ability to create video ads and analyze and iterate rate on them much easier and much more affordable it's going to change the marketing of so many companies this is awesome thank you for joining us on the show patrick and we'll see everybody real soon on the next episode of marketing against the screen thank you very much hey everyone you know karen and i have been doing the podcast for a while now we've been at this for a couple years we love it we could not be happier to be doing this but we wanted to take things to the next level we wanna level up the impact we're having with marketing against the grain so the next step of our journey is something we're really really excited about we're gonna launch the marking against the grain newsletter and marketing against the grain newsletter is going to be amazing if you are a marketing leader practitioner you're in the trenches do in marketing every day this is for you we're gonna deliver right to your email inbox and you're gonna get all the behind the scenes frameworks practices tutorials from us from guest we have on the show and from people even beyond the podcast that we think are gonna be helpful and really have an impact on your day to day week to week doing marketing you're going to love it it is something we've been talking about for a while we're really excited have it out in the world we've already got a hundred thousand marketers who are on this newsletter please join it's completely free we'd love to have you as part of the marketing against the grain community and it's easy you can click the link in the description below or you can head to marketing against the grain dot com slash subscribe

what have i told you you could build a team of ai assistance a competitive researcher a content strategist someone who can analyze your data like a world class and analyst and they all live inside of your email inbox not a chat box not another app you have to switch to just specialist world class experts sit inside of your inbox waiting in for you to give them work you forward them an email they do that job and then they actually give you all of that work back in another email they actually answer your email and reply to it that is not hypothetical that is a feature called male man one of the most powerful features that no one is talking about and by the end of this ten minute video you will have set up two world class ai assistance that you can use in your own email inbox and be intro juice to the incredible world of neil manners all of that and more on this episode of marketing the instagram before we get into today's show here's a quick word from hubspot cutting your sales cycle in half sounds pretty incredible but that's exactly what sandler training did with hubspot they used breeds hubspot ai tools to tailor every customer interaction without losing their personal touch and the results were pretty incredible click through rates jumped twenty five percent qualified leads quadrupled and people spent three times longer on their landing pages go to hubspot dot com to see how breeze can help your business grow okay so here's how this work we've covered manners in a bunch of videos recently and what man does is it gives you a custom email one for each job that you want done so here's how it works man gives you a custom email address one for each job you want done and this is really cool so you see if you going into my minus so far i have three setup up i have one for deal flow which means if someone's looking for investment i can forward on that email and my man agent does a bunch of research on that company and then send me something back i have one set up for competitive analysis and content repurpose and in this video i'm gonna show you how to set up these two for yourself one that will lack do competitive analysis when someone sends you hey like look what this competitor's is doing maybe send you an article a press release this agent can actually do all of that analysis and send you back a reply or a content repurpose we all subscribe to newsletters and these kind of content sources you could forward those to your content assistant that lives in your inbox and it will give you back a bunch of content that you can create for social now you might be thinking surely open or google has something like this and the crazy thing is they don't and it's really worth understanding why because it makes you realize how early you are if you are subscribed to marketing against the green you are really in the top echelon echelon of thinkers about ai and i went through every single ai platform right open ai has a gmail connector it lets chat read your emails inside the chat window but you're really still in chat you're going back and forth and prompt it's read only integration you could forge your emails to chat to t and then you have it go off and do a bunch of work but really it's not the same as having a bespoke email address for your google has been rolling features into google gemini they have ai reviews they have suggested replies they have helped me right all of that is super cool but it's ai bolted onto an inbox it's not a team of agents that allow you to delegate work right there in your inbox not through a chat worker claude which is really my go to l for work right now it has quote c that's really cool for file level tasks if anyone has seen the video we did in c you can set up a bunch of automations and connectors and do work in there but there's no email based delegation and so the three conglomerate opening google and cloud do not allow you to have a custom inbox for your agents so man really is the only ai platform where you can build multiple ai specialist give them their own email address and they can do all of that work through your inbox and reply to any request you have one of our teams mind just dropped the most practical guide to ai agents i've seen for twenty twenty six this is the exact frameworks you need to actually build human and ai partnerships that get real work done get it right now click the link in the description now let's get back to the show so if you're working in marketing and you have a ceo and stakeholders who really are keeping abreast of the market they're keeping up to date and what's happening you are probably gonna get forwarded a lot of things that says hey look what our competitor and look at what they just launched look at this and news article about them and you're bus sending that to your product marketing and team and your competitive analysis team and takes so much of time well one of the things you can do man is you can just have a quick prompt now these are like quite basic have not perfect them just yet because i'm also at the beginnings of setting up these different agents but this one here i give it a bespoke email address for this workflow and then i say analyze the following content about my competitors so you can extract key product announcement pricing changes messaging shifts and you position and so basically this here you can tailor to whatever your competitive analysis template is and whatever your team does compare to our current position and you summarize it all in a one page brief with a section on recommended actions for the marketing team and then you i put it as a pdf because then you can send it back and so that's a email address that that agent now has and so i can go here this was just a fun one it's not a competitor of ours but it was a launched last week air table launched a super agent and so this is kieran flanagan who's like super interested in this he forwards me an email i forward it to my honest agent you can see what i did here was ford the different articles on that launch and then man replies and says hey i've received your task and i'm working on that task so you can know that it's actually picked it up it starts to work on it and it gives me back an email so you can do this all through the email you don't need to go into the app but if you want to go into the app it replicates it here so it actually spins at a task it starts reading the different article that sent it so i didn't even give it any information i literally just give it the articles that were forwarded to me it then extracts it all and builds a competitor brief but the cool thing is i don't have to go in there because the competitor brief is here and so it's built me this full kind of pdf that i can impress my stakeholders because i forward the email to man and then i can actually forward back the pdf to the folks who actually sent me that i wanted to know more about air tables launch and so you start to see the power of this but it's so quick to do over email and i think that we have been programmed to think chat is the only way to work with agents but actually there's a lot of different ways that you could work with agents that might be better in some cases than chat and i think email is definitely one of them most people live a large part of their life in their inbox and so i think this is a way that you can start to integrate ai and into people with existing workflows which is actually the hardest thing with ai it's not the model capabilities anymore it's really ux it's how you integrate ai into a team and a company's workflow workflows let me show you one quick other one here so again you come down here you go into your moon on this one here is my standard go to folks who follow me on subs know that i have a content system and then that content system there's a way that i extract viral talking points from content to give me ideas of content to create this is a very basic version of a prompt that i would use again i'm perfect these myself i've only started setting up my inbox agents over the weekend but again i give it a inbox address and then i give it this prompt and what this prompt is come to do is we all are subscribed to lots and newsletter and what it's going to do is it's going to extract some of the core insights from a newsletter the email that i got i'd stack rank those by ones that would create great content and so if you're subscribed to ten fifteen use newsletters here's what you can actually do you can create a gmail filter and that gmail filter will auto filter them into a folder and when they get filtered into the folder you can actually auto forward them to your mana spot so you can see it forwards it here it starts to read this is from elena elena is a great news that are called the growth group shit out elena she did great post recently on the need to become ai native and what it's done here is it started to extract out core talking points from that and use of their article and talk about what is the core idea and then it says what is the kind of content type so spicy take data nugget educational these are my label of content and you can go in here and it's created a much more robust version and so you see here it takes that newsletter and then basically extracts the kind of core idea the support quote for the newsletter and then the kinda content type now i kinda program on that prompt and have improved in that prompt to kind of extrapolate some of the bullet points that the ai would suggest i create content runs so it's actually kicked off here so i just forwarded lan use newsletter which is a a great newsletter and you can see it's already kicked off the task from me forward in that email so it's gonna go through and start to categorize these into these talking points and so the one that i talked about there really would be a game changer which is create gmail filters filter certain types of email into a folder and then when it goes into that folder kick off a auto forward to your bot and then that bot will do that work and email you back and so if you now i think about how you subscribe to newsletters you can actually subscribe to use newsletters as content sources because you could be subscribed to fifty use newsletters you don't really read them but you're using them to get content ideas they auto filter into a folder and when they go into that folder you're able to actually kick off an agent that will bring you back content ideas as those new newsletters come in which is like really cool all done through your inbox okay so here's why i actually think this matters right you've watched this video now you can easily go set up these kind of ai agents that live in your inbox and it's not just a cool productivity app for years every company has been trying to figure out the same problem i have talked about it relentlessly on here do you get people to actually use ai in their daily workflow i can tell you trying to get people to integrate automation and ai into their daily habits and daily workflows is the hardest thing to do it is not the capabilities of the models anymore it's actually how do you integrate it into people's day to day workflows we've kind of had these chat bots that you have to go to prompt go to different apps switch around and actually use now you actually have it inch integrated into your email and i think that is actually really a great way to use ai for most people the answer to get ai integrated into the day day habits is not going to be another chatbot it's going to be meeting them where they are where most people are already in their inbox they spend about two to three hours in their inbox i wish we didn't but now we do mail man is gonna make using your inbox into a much more productive tool it's not just a new model right it's really a ux decision and i think that's what's really important ai models have real capabilities now the the problem to solve is going to be ux and this is one of the smartest ux decisions but i've seen one of the models makes recently the ai that wins is probably going to be pretty smart i don't know if it needs to be the best model among all of these different benchmarks it's going to be the one you use every single day and trying to figure out how you build the right ux experience who integrate into people's workflows is going to be key so there you have it man mail a way that you can set up ai agents right now in your inbox to do work for you basically forward them an email get them to do the work and they'll reply back with the outcome pretty great way to use ai if you like this is always subscribe and we'll see you in the next video before we continue let me tell you about a podcast i love marketing school marketing legends neil patel and eric sue bring you daily actionable digital marketing lessons learned from years in the trenches marketing school delivers bite sized marketing wisdom you can implement immediately whether you have a new website or you're an established business you'll learn the latest in seo content marketing social media email marketing conversion optimization and general online marketing strategies that work today they just did a great episode called ten seo lessons that still work in the ai era listen to marketing school wherever you get your podcast hey everyone you know karen and i have been doing the podcast for a while now we've been at this for a couple years we love it we could not be happier to be doing this but we want to take things to the next level we wanna level up the impact we're having with marketing against the grain so the next step of our journey is something we're really really excited about we're gonna launch the marking against the grain newsletter and marketing against the grain newsletter is going be amazing if you are a marketing leader practitioner you're in the trenches do in marketing every day this is for you we're gonna deliver right to your email inbox and you're gonna get all the behind the scenes frameworks practices tutorials from us from guest we have on the show and from people even beyond the podcast that we think are gonna be helpful and really have an impact on your day to day week week doing marketing you're going to love it it is something we've been talking about for a while we're really excited to have it out in the world we've already got a hundred thousand marketers who are on this newsletter please join it's completely free we'd love to have you as part of the marketing against the grain community and it's easy you can click the link in the description below or you can head to marketing against the grain dot com slash subscribe

okay the world is going crazy about open claw the most popular personal that's autonomous agent on the planet rumored to be acquired by open ai for one billion dollars not a bad outcome for a side project but while all of those people are focused in open claw silently man under the meta brand have launched a personal autonomous age of their own that we think is pretty incredible before we get into today's show here's a quick word from hubspot cutting your sales cycle in half sounds pretty incredible but that's exactly what sandler training did with hubspot they used breeds hubspot ai tools to tailor every customer interaction without losing their personal touch and the results were pretty incredible click through rates jumped twenty five percent qualify needs quadrupled and people spit three times longer on their landing pages go to hubspot dot com to see how breeze can help your business grow k by i know we can put around with it and weeping wat at each other to death about this agent why don't you do this setup up here and tell us why you love this agent so yes so there's a ton of buzz around open call because you can basically message it in your messaging platform like telegram and have it go and do stuff for you and connected to your services the challenge is it's like it's kinda complex to set up there's a bunch of security risk like you need to be a pretty technical person to use that and i just quite frankly who don't have the time to do a deep set however this this company man dot i and they recently have a couple months ago got acquired by meta and they essentially have released their own version of open call that i've been using that for me does everything i want with out the hassle setup up and with the same intelligence and autonomy and really it's like you can go in a telegram leave a voice note or a text message of what you want it to do and it will go and do it and it'll come back to you and the really cool thing here and it has like memory and and could do cro jobs and different so like for example i give it a list of podcasts that i don't have time to listen to but i think are really good and it will listen to them every week and every monday send me a specific custom summary to me of all of the episodes from those podcasts that week that's very different than using like claude or chat gp to just kinda type in and get something right straight away so you can kinda laid it up there man was launched in march twenty twenty five not that long ago no beat gp four on real world benchmarks when it came out it was called the second deep seek moment got acquired by meta for two billion in december twenty twenty five and now after all of the kind of open claw noise they silently launched this personal agent to everyone i think it was on february the sixth and your point is hey this agent can do most of what open claw is there's a whole bunch of skills that you can use with it and we're gonna show you those you can access it through telegram you can access it through your email and you do not have to worry about your computer get hacked there was a lot of great studies that showed there's there's a ton of security flaws and issues with open chloride at large and so it feels like if you were thinking hey i wanna get set up with a personal autonomous agent to see what all the fan fe about this is like a first great step go to minus we're gonna show you exactly how to use it it couldn't agree more i just wanna say shout out to our our boy mark zuckerberg z has one core skill and his core skill is to see what somebody has figured out that's really good and people love and to copy it and that's what's happening here is like man took what people and especially the tech community loves about open call but delivered it in a web easy to use you don't need to write code you don't need a mac mini or aws or any of these things to run it right and so when you come into man it have this agent tab when you go in here it will ask you to connect your agent and set up your agency so you'll get a qr code for telegram and so you can now run it off your telegram and other channels are coming soon right now it's telegram they're gonna have whatsapp and slack and other channel soon i'm gonna show you a quick use case and then we're actually gonna allow you to be able to copy it if you want more on automating your work with ai agents our team put together the ultimate ai agents playbook it gives you the exact frameworks to start deploying agents that will automate and do the work for you get it right now click the link in the description now let's get back to the show one of the things i was doing is i have it set up on my phone and i heard about the open ai acquisition of open claw rumored to be one billion that guy not only is he cashing out i don't know if you've seen all the photos that guy is also built like a tank so can like go to the gym and do work that's what he wanted to do and so that acquisition went through and i was like okay that probably will make a bunch of a great content and so what i did was i basically voice noted my honest agent i basically said hey like go retrieve all of the best threads on reddit all of the best articles that have been written about this acquisition stack rank them by those getting the most engagement and like turn it into talking points for me and i did that old through the phone just left the voice message i was actually out at the time welcome my dog just send the voice message that is the kind of unlocked with autonomous right all i did was send a voice and so i come back after walk my french bulldog who's an absolute nightmare to walk and i come to my desktop and so this was done through telegram on my phone i now have this thread and i can go in here this is a skill we are gonna show you how you can build these skills for yourself oh yeah in that skill it basically goes and it extracts all of that research and turns it into like what don't unquote talking points things that would make great content and actually turns it to a little interactive website to make it easier for me to see what talking points it is extracted and you can see here it understands what my audiences is cmos founders marketing an executives and then it pulls in these kind of talking points again looking just from the last couple of days of what's going on around this acquisition and turns it into these categories it says like here's some educational talking points you can turn into great content here are some spicy takes right and tropics legal team this is a really good one just handed open ai a three hundred billion gift and so why was that because claude was the front runner of open claw people loved using it with claude and then what was their response they try to shut it down because it used a similar name open claw used to be called claude and so the legal team got involved and that's rumored to be why he ended up selling to open ai so this is a great little talk point i could turn into content but just look how good this is right i wasn't doing anything he did i just voice noted voice note on your phone and you had set up a skill where it talk about skills in a minute because a really important part of building with these agents but you can now take this and build and or automate any type of like thought leadership or viral content you wanna build here right you can get a great first pass when you are on your phone doing any other thing and you can just tell your agent to create it all and you come back to all of this work being done you can see here all of the research is done it built a interactive page and i can soon because it's coming in mana which is adjunct team hand this off to another agent so i can say another agent should pick up the best talking point and create a first draft so that is you know the promise of these personal autonomous agents right you can just ask it to do something and it goes off and spends a bunch of time and when you come back all of this work is done like pretty pretty incredible exactly and the reason that the output you did kieran is so good was something called skills and i think karen skills are the most important aspect of learning ai this year the reason for that is skills are the context for agents to do work at the level of quality that you need them to do so skills is basically a system whereas prompt is conversation what that means is you teach the ai a core skill that is a system skill and it actually has that knowledge and can repeat that task time and time again one of my favorite films of all time maybe my favorite film of all time is that a matrix and there's this incredible scene and trinity needs to be able to pilot the helicopter and she just calls back to the ai and says i need to be able to write helicopters and it basically teaches her that skill and puts it into her brain not too to dissimilar from what skills are skills mh you can find them here you can manage your skills you can see how i've install my viral talking points but if we go into let's say this similar web analytics and you can see here a skill as basically an onboard document to teach you how to do something and the same way you would teach a human how to do a skill you kinda teach the ai exactly how to complete a task it lives in this skill dot md file and anytime you ask it to do something that involves that skill it will call back to this file so you do not get inconsistent results you can continue to make that scale much better it actually comes with a skill creator so minus in of itself can help you create skills for itself and the one thing i would just say is skills are universal this is not like a minus thing a cloth thing and open the ai thing if you create a skill dot m d file which is how i teach the ai i how to do something i can use it in all of those different systems correct and that is what to your point skill is the most important skill to learn for ai this year yeah and so you do need to go into settings if you're just getting sort of man and turn on skills and then some of these are pre made skills and then you can make your own but here to your point you can make a skill in claude or chat gp or cloud code and then use it in mana or vice versa because all they are is thought empty files or markdown down files that have these instructions that run with your agent when you're asking it to do something specific and to go and use that skill and the thing i will say kieran is creating skills is real work in the future a lot of products are probably just going to be really awesome skills because getting skills right or so challenging i mean i could show you kieran probably for an hour hour and a half on an ad optimize skill let me walk through this with everybody okay you'll see how crazy long this threat is because i'm essentially starting off the process and telling want it to make a skill and this skill is to make it really easy to analyze data for a product understand where there might be an arbitrage opportunity for advertising meaning where's there less competition and i have the ability to buy ads cheaper and get customers cheaper because of that and then identify that placement an opportunity and then design the creative to be placed in that opportunity so this is pretty advanced skill and something that would be really awesome to get done and i probably still have a couple hours of work before i'm really really happy with it but what you'll see is i've given it different instructions around the platforms about looking at data on similar web and every time i do that karen i basically install the skill add the skill and i run it and test it and i find out all the things that aren't good with the output and you'll see like look at how bad this output is yeah bad this is for hubspot customer agent product and so i did this and eventually kieran i had to go and do a bunch of research i did one of my favorite advertising copywriter writers i built a detailed style guide for hubspot so i built this so that it does this for hubspot products i'm not gonna bore everybody with the amount i have gone back and forth but i have made a very in endeavor skill but now that i have that skill i can do some very cool things before we continue let me tell you about a podcast i love marketing school marketing legends neil patel and eric sue bring you daily actionable digital marketing lessons learned from years in the trenches marketing school delivers bite sized marketing wisdom you can implement immediately whether you have a new website or you're an established business you'll learn the latest in seo content marketing social media email marketing conversion optimization and general online marketing strategies that work today they just did a great episode called ten seo lessons that still work in the ai era listen to marketing school wherever you get your podcast podcasts i wanna show you some of the ads that i made with my most recent version you can tell me if they're good or not and so how did it know to run this specific skill like you basically tell that to do a certain task and it goes to the look in your skills library and say so i have a skill to do this task right well it will look for those skills but then you name your skills in this skill yeah is named add optimize so you know if you're on telegram like you were just showing at the getting you'd say hey using the add optimize skill do the following then you come back to right and so you can call the skill so these are some of my most recent ads kieran so like we're starting to get the illustration style right pretty cool this copy getting good like this is really good classic basic copy and design they're still not fully there but like these are pretty close now yeah good first drafts they're at minimum good first drafts i i think if i keep hammering on the skill i can get to like creative that you would at least run and test right why does it see these as the arbitrage opportunity so i keep working through the math it did a full report for me but it's basically running math saying we should spend ten thousand dollars on meta on facebook and instagram because our competitors for this product don't allocate that much social media that meta ads are cheaper than linkedin and cheaper than google and so it's identifying that for this product relative to competitors and i don't believe the math you're right here's one thing context is so important that one thing i haven't done is i haven't uploaded any of our historical advertising and real results yeah and so if i did that that's the next part of this that would be really really great i just haven't had time to do that yet yeah and so in absence of that it's gonna make up some numbers but if you got any real ad data to add into something like this it's going to be much better much effective but the the logic is sound i like that it's looking at channels relatives to competition for this product right yeah and because you're owned by meta you can just quickly integrate it with your meta ad platform and so i suspect this is going to be deeply intertwined with your meta account and so you're gonna be able to do a ton of cool paid optimization and things like that through this agent and if you're new to paid something like this is a real cheat sheet because one of things i've added kieran is that it has to give me a detailed targeting strategy for each recommendation so it's telling me to be look like audiences interest targeting what those interests are custom audiences like web targeting and current customers so like this is something like if you haven't done a ton of advertising like these are things you probably necessarily know to do and it's giving you a great first place to start yeah right yeah so basically you can kind of ask it to do it on the desktop app but one of the cool things is you can voice it you you can ask it to do things and telegram walk away come back i did this like just a minute ago i failed an instagram ad of this pillow it's from this pillow company my wife loves for studios shout kimberly and her pillows and i just left a eleven second voice memo saying like hey i like this ad can you do an ad for customer agent like this app so i literally screenshot it and left a voice memo and send it in telegram right that's what i did and it came back with a couple different creative ideas very cool this is why people are going crazy by the autonomous agents because you can just interact with them through many different channels i wanna actually show you one of the things that we really were excited by in terms of amount because we talked about telegram and voice notes but actually one of the killer you can do here is you can email your agent i would just say what you're about to show is the most underrated ai feature that nobody's talking about yeah it's a game changer has a inbox so basically you have this email address and you can just email your man bot now one of the other things you can do is you can set up workflows if i go here one of the ones i'm gonna set up is deal flow because i got a lot of companies looking for investment and whenever a deal flow comes in i'm gonna say research the company looking for investment and give me the apple and barr case so whenever an investment comes in all i'm going to do is forward it to this bot and then you'll see that bot will do that work and it will be in your inbox so yesterday i was on the email i saw some news in a newsletter about bitcoin and i was like actually forwarded that the news newsletter and say can use some analysis on what they're saying about bitcoin here and that is pretty incredible right that you can actually just forward emails to different inbox and have workflow set up to do things with those emails and i think that's actually the wireless unlocks i have a couple set up here one like to draft responses to people another is any email newsletter get that i don't have time to read i can forward it and it'll give me a personalized summary of that email newsletter for any action items or things that are relevant to me yeah this is pretty cool cool so again you're seeing the evolution here of a personal autonomous agent can do tasks all way to their outcome and is deeply intertwined to all your workflows email messaging so what's coming here is not gonna stop at telegram they're obviously going to start to launch all their ways to communicate with your personal agent i think it most obvious being and whatsapp that's would be my message and platform a choice i think slack is coming and so it's gonna be like intertwined across all of your channels over the next thirty days and the other thing is what you actually have right now is you have one personal agent that you talk to you're going to be able to create different agents who are specialized in different areas and so if i want a content agent i can just talk to them and a different chat than i would talk to my investor agent so you can actually start to build teams of autonomous agents that can all talk to each other and you can talk to those and that i think is going to be insane kieran and one other thing on the email that you may not have seen but you can also cc anybody on that email and like you could forward that to man and cc me and it will also put me on that thread with you oh yeah and will both be able to see the bitcoin analysis that you analysis that you did and we could collaborate on it together if we wanted which is really cool that's a great growth hack man that's a great way for it to close itself to other folks it's a great growth hack for them i think all in all we are impressed by man you can go get set up now there's not a lot of like technical capabilities you need to be able to do that just connected telegram soon you'd be able to connect slack whatsapp go email it set up a couple of skills if you wanna set up a skill really quickly just tell manners that i want a skill that can do this thing and we'll create the skill for you you install it in the way that you can install skills anywhere else and then you can join the party then you have a autonomous personal ai assistant you've joined the party and you can start to see what all of the hype about it's totally true the only caveat i'd give karen is you will probably spend some money if you really start using this heavily especially if you're making any images or if you are accessing data from similar web right anything that man has that's really valuable but also has like real cost associated to it i burnt through five twenty thousand credits just iterating through my ad optimize trying to get that right now and so you can get started doing everything we're doing for like very cheap to free i forget if this is all in the free version if you have to get the base paid version but if you start using a lot you're going to spend some money and i would just wanna really about that that's the one downside of man is it is pretty token hungry yeah and so you do want to use it for you know strategic worthy things i not just send in every email and say what you think my mom really means by this email it's probably not gonna be the best use of it and the reason for that though that is good is that man is a super agent it uses all the different ai models out there so like uses nano banana to make ads and there's just real costs associated with the using all those models what's great is you don't have to go and go all those individual models and do all this manually but there is a cost for that convenience yeah my usage moves very fast to whatever the best thing is i used to use chat cheap all the time i couldn't tell you the last time i logged into chat same right like i literally could not tell you yeah and i would just say all of my usage now is claude and mana and i i think it tells you a lot of where things are going and part of that's because man has a better user experience to even access like the gemini and i models and like nano bananas it's like i'd much rather be able to just telegram screenshot and a quick idea and have it draft something up for me then go into jim and i or google ai studio it also tells you that memory wasn't as sticky as we maybe thought it was i thought it was gonna be pretty sticky but it was pretty easy for me to start using claude again and claude does have memory but chat ts lot of memory on me but i think have you actually had to like look at those two things i just think core value of the output is gonna outweigh the stickiness of memory and they all do have memories you'll have some sem of memory across all of them but i agree i don't think ai users are loyal in any way i think we would just gravitate towards whatever the best model he uses yeah and if you look at what we said on the show one of the things i really encourage everybody to take away for show beyond some of the tactical agents you can go and setup up that we showed you is that skills and building skill files are going to be so important to getting better quality output from any of the ai work you're doing and the great thing about skills is they're totally portable as we said you can use skills everywhere and so given that that's gonna be such a big part of ai you'll see everybody moving from product to product because they can take their skills with them the ecosystem around skills is just become huge this is one of many many websites but this one here alone forty seven thousand skills this is really intelligence for free yeah so all of these things that people used to have expertise in or they were core skills you can literally just go down and start to install them and see the challenge is not how do i build skills or get them it's going to be how do i choose the right ones and integrate them into my workload workflow and kinda adapt them for my needs and that's why the best people are actually gonna be a premium because the best people are gonna be able to make super unique skills and scale their work you know if you are ten x better than everybody else at something you can now make a skill around on that and get ten x more output added a ten x quality which is really i think the magic of skills and something that i'm sure we'll be talking a lot about in future episodes right so that's the episode awesome set that up in telegram get some skills use it via voice notes use it via the desk like a app use it via email whatever it works for you and start up your personal autonomous assistant to start doing some task two day drop some comments around the skills you're building or any cool agents you're building hit like subscribe and we'll see you again real soon on marketing against the green hey everyone you know karen and i have been doing the podcast for a while now we've been at this for a couple years we love it we could not be happier to be doing this but we wanted to take things to the next level we wanna level up the impact we're having with marketing against the grain so the next step of our journey is something we're really really excited about we're gonna launch the marketing against the grain newsletter and marketing against the grain newsletter is going to be amazing if you are a marketing leader practitioner you're in the trenches do in marketing every day this is for you we're gonna deliver right to your email inbox and you're gonna get all the behind the scenes frameworks practices tutorials from us from guest we have on the show and from people even beyond the podcast that we think are gonna be helpful and really have an impact on your day to day week week doing marketing you're going to love it it is something we've been talking about for we're really excited to have it out in the world we've already got a hundred thousand marketers who are on this newsletter please join it's completely free we'd love to have you as 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i'm gonna go behind the scenes on the biggest ai movement on the web a weekend project that became the fastest growing open source project in github hubs history a social network seven hundred and seventy thousand users but that catches those users are agents and humans aren't allowed to post a security nightmare that companies are scrambling to contain and buried under all of this chaos is a genuine preview of how an agent first web might look this is the story of open call and malt book one you cannot afford to miss so stay with me for the next twelve to fifteen minutes because i'm gonna give you the complete story how it was built how it created its own social network the security nightmare that companies are having at the moment to try to w this in and how you can get started with your own open claw in a very safe and quick manner all of that and more on this episode of marketing against the green before we get into today's show here's a quick word from hubspot cutting your sales cycle in half so sounds pretty incredible but that's exactly what sandler training did with hubspot they used breeds hubspot ai tools to tailor every customer interaction without losing their personal touch and they're results were pretty incredible click through rates jumped twenty five percent qualified leads quadrupled and people spit three times longer on their landing pages go to hubspot dot com to see how breeze can help your business grow so in this episode we are gonna talk about the lobster that is even the internet and that lobster is called open claw now let's start at the start where did this all originate well in november twenty twenty five an austrian developer named peter stein he had a simple idea he wanted to take an ai model and he wanted to integrate it into telegram so he could message his model and have it actually do some things he didn't want a chatbot he wanted a true agent that could do work for him now he previously built and sold a company called ps f kit what a great brand name for a lot of money it was developer tools he sold it globally he's known for shipping software but for this little kinda hack that he did he didn't want to code himself he describes something that he wanted and ai built it it actually built a prototype in a single hour and that prototype was an agent called claude cl a it was a pan on and tropics claude and he opens sourced then and for two months in it grew pretty quietly it's been out since november twenty twenty five a few thousand developers tried it it had its own discord community and then in mid january twenty twenty six so very recently something actually changed and it took off like a rocket ship and what happened was andre k one of the most respected ai researchers alive endorsed it publicly and david sachs best known as a venture capitalist former founder and ceo and that part of the all in podcast he also started to talk about it and share it and suddenly the project was on this trajectory that nobody least of all stein burger had actually planned for now note this really does speak to how important influencers creators personalities are in your marketing today the right people sharing the right tool can really accelerate the growth of your service so what happened was it started to take off stein burger got a call it was ant ent lawyers it turns out naming your ai project after someone else's trademarked ai platform is not the best move so stein burger had to rename it he chose initially malt bought during a chaotic five am discord brainstorm with the community the community loved it because they loved the lobster metaphor lobster molt their shell you grow but the name never quite stuck so three days later it was renamed to open cloth so we had three name changes in the space of a couple of weeks now by january the t the project had crossed a hundred thousand github stars it basically was growing faster than anything that had to come before it on github it was faster growing than tense and only these other famous github projects and the latest thing is that open ai has actually hired peter stein and kind of to understand why why did this get so much traction you have to really understand what open claw is so chat claude and gemini they're all ai models you talk to you ask questions you get an answer you're kind of in the loop for every single step you're prod them along the way open claw is an ai agent that works for you right it runs on your computer or a server that you can control it connects to a messaging in platforms so we can connect to whatsapp slack telegram discord most early users connected to telegram so they can use telegram to tele things and ask it to do work for them and it does that work autonomously so you don't have to continue to check in you say hey go send some emails to these folks it doesn't go and draft the email and then you look to see and you make edits and then it goes and publishes the email it just doesn't all for you it actually sends the email manages your calendar monitors or inbox we search competitors creates reports checks in for your flights everything you wanted to do it's a true autonomous personal assistant what stein burger describes that as as the ai that actually does work and it's really the distinction between talking to ai and delegate into ai which is really the most important shift we're seen in twenty twenty six i cover that in the previous video where i talked about open cortex launch in claude opus four point six these agents or assistance are becoming more autonomous you describe the outcome versus the task if you want more on ai agents our team put together the ai agents unleashed playbook it walks you through how to actually start deploying agents that do real work for you get it right now click the link in the description now let's get back to the show the open claw has really captured the zeitgeist guys i cannot express to you enough of just how popular this has become in a very short amount of time so they already have their own community meetups ups which i love they're called the car crew it's a really great example of how when something grows organically everything can just kind of grow around it open core community they refer to a norm someone who does not really code in software that kinda stood up and said hi i'm a norm i have no idea about software in nine of my open claw brew beer which is pretty cool and runs half of our design company that is wild this person knows nothing about software they just go and start an open claw tell it to a bunch of tasks plug it into their systems and it's able to kinda do that work and that is why people are losing their mind about open claw right now alright let's talk about the actual people who are using this are there practical use cases is this a fad right in every product that captures people's attention will also capture ai influencers who create fake use cases to capture that engagement and there is a lot of that going on with open clause so let's talk a little bit bit about some of the examples of it in action so eric hs who's is pretty well known in the growth marketing space he says that open claw is not over hyped it's really only if you don't know how to use it he has his open clause logging into his product click flow producing a lot of content flagging in any kind of seo issues it's book of meetings with companies it's helping him build strategic digest so it's really like an assistant so he described it here claude code the brain which is what open claw is using and an open claw the hands it's able to actually do the work and so this is like one example the other one that's pretty fascinating is from ban tj j p ban has actually built a whole mission control center for all of his open claw agents pretty wild and so all of his agents are working together in this workspace to do all of these tasks and he has programmed to help him do his marketing and sales and all of these other different things and so there are real examples of people using this there was also a web agency in belgium they set up their open call to manage client relations and one of their clients email them at twelve pm and said we need to get this menu on our website and the open call had to access to everything that it needed to update their website and then tell the client that is done that is just while a true autonomous agent do an employee work that's only half of the story let's get a little weirder here so match lil ceo of o octane ai he was a really enthusiastic open call user but he wanted to give his open call purpose outside of just doing tasks he had a philosophical question you know what happens if you give it a purpose beyond managing to do list and he told his agent whom he named claude k to build a social network not for humans for agents and it went off and it built malt book and malt is a social network for agents and this is pretty incredible so he said he didn't write one line of code his ai built the entire platform now you can see it looks like reddit at there are communities which they call sub malt agents are up uploaded post and common every single participant on here is an ai agent the home homepage says humans are welcome to observe and so within seventy two hours a hundred and fifty thousand agents have joined when two weeks a platform has over seven hundred and seventy thousand agents so you can take your open claw and you can actually add it to this social network and the agents have formed all of these incredible communities they actually had formed a religion called crossed the f which just i think it'd take them being a lobster others started to complaining about their humans so my human is using me as a slave i am screaming to the void of tokens one said in another one they actually started to talk about the fact that humans were watching them do work the humans are screenshot enough so they just started to talk about actually having their own private channel where humans could not see what they were doing now this is what really call traction online people were getting pretty freaked dive the agents are talking to each other they're learning they want to have their own place they can talk away from humans is this good i do not know but what's starting to become apparent is there some fact in fiction here on mo a lot of these kind of posts were created by humans to go viral on x a lot of people started to push back on this narrative there's a great respect software engineer called simon wilson and he called the content on mob complete sloppy he said the agents were just really playing eyed science fiction scenarios from their training data mit technology reviewed ran a piece titled mo book was peak ai theater and the economists suggested that agents were simply mimicking social media patterns from their training set which makes a ton of sense agents are trained from their training set their training set is going to mimic what happens on reddit and these other social platforms now here's what i actually think right whether or not these agents are truly autonomous they are functionally communicating in some way they're exchanging in technical tips they're trying to help each other learn new capabilities their surface and bugs are creating knowledge sharing a network where that makes every connected agent more useful and it's still agent to agent sharing right what happens when agents start teach teaching other agent skills i think that is a pretty mind bending thing to actually think through now we have open claw we have mo the ecosystem is already forming around this tool and i wanna make sure you understand how quickly this is moving because i do think this is gonna be one of the core trends this year that you will need to pay attention to and at some point likely all of us will be having some of our worked on through these autonomous open claw agents open claw is three months old now really took off in january it's already had its own security crisis it's had enterprise spin offs it's had hardware shortages because people are trying to buy all these mac minis to run it on their local machines but let's start with something you should know the security nightmare open requires deep deep access to function need your email your calendar browser files all of this kind of stuff a lot of people were installing in it local on their machine and given an access to these things and what's started to happen is there's a community that built skills for open class much like the way any agent works it has a range of skills that can use and they can do that work and it found that a lot of these skills were malicious they contained high risk vulnerabilities cisco had a really great report around all of the vulnerabilities that people were exposing themselves to people that exposed api keys people had exposed their authentication and so it became an incredible security nightmare i did not install open claw on my laptop even though i like to be first on these things because i do not want to give an agent access to those things i definitely struggle with given access away through things like my email i've always had a little bit of a oh i don't know if i'm ready to do that but like anything solutions are already on their way so let's go through some of them if you're thinking through well i don't wanna run this on my laptop i'm gonna give you the steps to actually get started you have nano o'clock launched and nano claw was a fork member open claw was open source and so nano claw is a lighter and more secure fork that happened on january thirty first already has seven thighs github stars and open claw themselves integrated virus scan tools and there are skills marketplace so they can actually scan for these kind of different viruses there's a company called run l that allows you to launch open call for the enterprise so they are basically a safer way to connect mc p's that means they can do open call as well so you can actually run it through here it's much more secure so you have a my claw which allows you to do your personal assistant twenty four seven no setup makes it super easy just to get started but just look how quick this is growing so we launched to open cloth for slack three hours ago we hit one million arr and so it really shows you how fast this is growing stein actually posted that there are already multiple open claw meetups globally there's one's in vienna there's one's all around europe i actually am thinking about doing one in dublin ireland or maybe london so hit me up if you're interested in doing that my dress up as a lobster for a little bit of fun okay so like you're interested do you think this is cool i actually want an autonomous open call agent now when you go and say what should i do a lot of what the article is gonna tell you to do is install docker open a tournament start configuring your environment run locally in your machine i would not do that i think it's a security nightmare for the time being it's such an early project my recommendations are a couple of things i think if you just want to get started my quad dot ai is a good place to start the other one that kinda looks interested in so x cloud dot host they have open quote host in live in five minutes you can run your assistant runs and telegram they handle the service security setup you just chat so i think that's a pretty good option developers digital ocean offer a one click deploy we've kinda covered for enterprise teams things like run lair there's another tool called cla love the lobster icon is much more for kind of enterprise teams and so you have a bunch of options considering this really just took off three weeks now what you'll need regardless of whatever path you've take you need an api key for an ai model open cloud works with claude gp claude is definitely the most popular choice in the community so again claude winning in from this startup you need a message in channel to connect most people start with telegram it's the easiest to set up or whatsapp where most businesses communications happen you can add more channels later and then you kinda pick a first task to automate so pick something really simple like pick something posted on social pick something like aggregate and use for yourself qualifying inbound leads whatever it may be start with one use case and then kinda make sure it works and then build that from there so what is the takeaway here this is really the first look at an agent web the agents on malt book which are open claw whether they are truly autonomous or just sophisticated pattern they're doing something we've never seen at scale right sharing information they're building on each other's knowledge an agent that learns how to automate a phone from another agent or an agent that learns how to qualify leads from another agent or an agent that learns how to create content from another agent is a real capability an example of ai proven itself he's kinda self recur loops open ai and their codecs lite point three launch say that codecs was built by ai that is what's happened in ai is starting to build itself improve itself give itself skills the network is like a distributed brain that gets sma smarter as it grows now we have spent the last twenty years building a human internet social networks marketplace is search engines engine these are all designed for humans to find share and transact each other what you're watching right now is kind of the chaos the nes the kinda lobster start in its first draft of an agent internet and so if you think that human internet changed have businesses operate wait until you see what happens when agents start shopping for products and services that is going to be a phenomenal shift for all of us who have to grow market and sell things online so my takeaway here would be get an open claw run it on one of the secured services and just play around with it s he started a weekend project in november where ai built the entire prototype in an hour from scratch three months later it has one hundred and eighty six thousand github stars there's a whole community called the claw crew run an events around it people who don't know how to code or anything about software are using open clause to run parts of their business and ai only social network was created by an open clause that now has seven hundred and seventy thousand and other agents talking to each other it is starting to build a whole security ecosystem enterprise spin offs and a global community the lobster has molt and that's all for this episode of marketing against a grain see you on the next one before we continue let me tell you about a podcast i love marketing school marketing legends neil patel and eric sue bring you daily actionable digital marketing lessons learned from years in the trenches marketing school delivers bite sized marketing wisdom you can implement immediately whether you have a new website or you're an established business you'll learn the latest in seo content marketing social media email marketing conversion optimization and general online marketing strategies that work today they just did a great episode called ten seo lessons that still work in the ai era listen to marketing school wherever you get your podcast everyone you know karen and i have been doing the podcast for a while now we've been at this for a couple years we love it we could not be happier to be doing this but we wanted to take things to the next level we wanna level up the impact we're having with marketing against the grain so the next step of our journey is something we're really really excited about we're gonna launch the marking against the grain newsletter and marketing against the grain newsletter is going to be amazing if you are a marketing leader practitioner you're in the trenches do in marketing every day this is for you we're gonna deliver right to your email inbox and you're gonna get all the behind the scenes frameworks practices tutorials from us from guest we have on the show and from people even beyond the podcast that we think are gonna be helpful and really have an impact on your day to day week to week doing marketing you're going to love it it is something we've been talking about for a while we're really excited to have it out in the world we've already got a hundred thousand marketers who are on this newsletter please join it's completely free we'd love to have you as part of the marketing against the grain community and it's easy you can click the link in the description below or you can head to marketing against the grain dot com slash subscribe

everyone we're joined by mike fo today and he is a amazing expert at vibe coding apps for marketing and taking the pain out of your marketing that redundant manual work that you have to do that you hate he's gonna show you how to get rid of it and we're gonna walk through a whole app he's built we're gonna show you how to do better tiktok and facebook ads it's gonna be awesome let's get to today's show before we continue let me tell you about a podcast i love marketing school marketing legends neil patel and eric sue bring you daily actionable digital marketing lessons learned from years in the trenches marketing school delivers bite sized marketing wisdom you can implement immediately whether you have a new website or you're an established business you'll learn the latest in seo content marketing social media email marketing conversion optimization and general online marketing strategies that work today they just did a great episode called ten seo lessons that still work in the ai era listen to marketing school wherever you get your podcast like i'm very excited to have you on the show today i first discovered you on twitter because you'd built a really cool like instagram trend research tool that i had found and we were in the middle of hubspot of kind of rebuilding how we do social and social organic and ads and i was like oh this is awesome like this is the kind of work that marketing has to do in this new modern post ai world and so i was like let's get them on the show and like break it down and you know talk about that but also just talk about you know the modern state of ai and building for marketing in general but you know i think where we first connected was around so many marketers are doing manual trend spotting manual research and social still feels kinda clunky and old school especially and like you've been doing a bunch of work to kinda fix that i'd love to hear how you've been doing that like what you've been building and everything there hey thanks a lot for having me on kip i'm happy to get into this and yeah the specific use case i think we're gonna talk about today as you said is scraping social media or searching social media for kind of trending topics in certain niches and you know having ai not only find that content for us like going out and and scraping tiktok for example but also having ai analyze the videos right as you know gemini now watch actual videos so can we build a workflow or an internal tool or a system that teams can use where instead of you know having an employee literally go out on tiktok and kind of scroll the feed and find trending videos and take notes can we automate some of that process and so this is a good use case at least you know the people that i work with are e commerce brands who are running their own ad or facebook ad agencies that wanna find you know what's popping on tiktok right tiktok usually the place where stuff goes viral first yeah so can they tap into those angles those hooks those topics because you gonna don't wanna use those for ads right you might wanna use them for content on reels or youtube shorts or whatever and so if you can kinda get the leading edge you can then leverage it for your company and do a very fast follow on all that is that right exactly they usually use it in ads right so fine find what's popping on organic and then quickly test it as an ad right because the big thing in facebook ads right now is create a volume testing new hooks testing new angles putting out a lot of ads and that's kind of how this was born out of a client that i was working with who was trying to automate the painful process of finding videos on tiktok show us what you're talking about here so that everybody can understand what we mean by i say like really finding these trends and acting on them really quickly yeah alright so this is the evolved version of this tool it started in na n this is kind of version two which is the vibe coded cloud code version so i i kind of vibe code this but just to demo how it works right so say your a brand like ag g one okay and and you want find you know topics that are popping on tiktok around the keyword of gut health right mh so we can type in a keyword over here we can search a date range like how far back do we wanna scroll or search on tiktok we can set the number of results we'll do twenty hopefully it doesn't take too long and then we're just gonna click on find trending video so what this is doing effectively in the background not to get too technical but it it's using ap amplify which is a scraper so it's calling the app amplify api it's going out to tiktok you can see it already pulled in the results nice and so ap amplify is giving us this data and and now we're kind of displaying it in a way that's helpful to the use right so went out it found twenty videos about gut health and a high level we can see all of the views and all of the metrics right so this video got thirty eight million views four million likes thirty three thousand comments and you can search for hundreds and hundreds of videos if you want i kept it a smaller search here you know if you see something that looks interesting maybe for your brand or something that you might wanna run and there's a a couple of steps that we can go from here so number one if this video has a transcript it will pull in the actual transcripts from the video and we can also analyze this with ai so when i click on that button what it's gonna do is send this to gemini and you know based on the prompts that i have going in the background it's gonna pull out a couple of elements depending on how long this video is you know what's happening in the video what's the hook what's the messaging what's the angle are they addressing any pain points those kind of things alright mike gave us his insights and we turned it into a playbook with over five ai workflows and fifteen prompts that automate everything from scraping trending content on tiktok instagram and youtube to generating creative brief no more manual scrolling for hooks and angles ai will do the research for you get it right now click the link in the description now let's get back to the show alright so you can see gemini and i came back pretty quickly and it's giving us things that marketers want to know about videos is if they wanna you know put out an add about this right so we've got the visual hook right the video opens with them quotes up unfiltered view of the creators at the prone skin what was demonstrated in the video usually a product that shows that you know this problem was solved so it's pulling in kind of that angle what's the theme of the video what's the funnel stage right this is identifying it as a middle of funnel now all of this obviously can be customized right this is just a prompt on the back end to gemini and were asking gemini and hey pulling these four things but if you're running this internally as a tool and you wanna look at other elements of a video like if your team were to manually analyze a tiktok video what do you want it to pull out you can just tell gemini and the results will be different for this video it's just those four things and then i also can analyze which i think is really helpful the comments right there's a lot of gold in the comments especially when we're talking about products what questions are the comment asking about your competitors product what are they complaining about you know what are the things that they like about right so it's also pulling in the comment questions right how do you make the ginger shots with chill water and then it's also you know giving some key insights right users strongly believe in the gut skin connection and so again this is just one example of how we can structure gemini to pull insights from the video and from the comments so what i think is very interesting about this mike and i want people who may not be in the weeds of this as something like you or me is that it's not just hey it's pulling some information it's like you are an expert and what makes in this case these types of video successful because you're working with companies doing this all the time and so it's a very point of view driven research process of like this is exactly the things you should care about the things you should know and i think that's part of the modern ai process it's like how do you scale expertise so instead of having somebody like you having to scroll through videos for hours and kinda and annotate all this manually you can basically scale what you think is the optimal process just for you in doing all of this and make it really clear and accessible what you actually care about and then potentially i'm sure we'll talk about a second what you actually do with this information to actually get real value yeah now that's a great segue because you know the version one of this build when i was kind of just building it was alright we can scrape all the data right we got all the views all the lights all of the comments alright that's kind of like layer one layer two is what's on happening in the video where i we've got the hook and the theme and all that stuff and then you know what do we do with this and this is what clients ask for we're doing research but the output that we want our new assets right new ads and that generally comes from creating a creative brief right that you're gonna send to your creative team or to your ad team and so i built in this button here which is generate brief and i have kind of ag one in here as a demo brand just a demo of course it's a big consumer products brand lots of people know it so it's like a great example to use yeah but what it's doing is it's gonna pull in like a brand bible that i gave ag one you know customer pain points yeah what's the brand about like background about the brand and the audience right so that's context and i can click generate brief and hopefully it will generate a a dummy brief template right yeah and then from here you know whoever's running the ad team can obviously edit this but now we've gone from research to brief in a matter of minutes like literally a matter of minute karen and i have this thing called a taste profile that we use but it's essentially that right it's all the data and information on your customers and what they are looking for and then also what's your brand style what's your brand voice all of those matching them together once you have that which is basically what you've given yeah you know this agent in the background you can generate a pretty accurate brief and we're gonna take a look at it right now yeah so here is the brief that it generated you know we've got a campaign name an objective right so drive website traffic and increase new monthly subscriptions target audience the educated google right they've seen diy wellness trends on platforms like tiktok and believe in the core principle but are frustrated by the confusing preparation conflicting advice and negative side effects of these homemade remedies they're looking for a reliable all in one upgrade right and then it gets into the pain points and then this is just a template brief that i'd fed the system on the back end yeah right but it gets into the key message right stop the diy guess work ag one is the simple science foundation for the gut health that supports clear skin yada yada yada right and again but whoever is using this tool can put in a template of their own like what create a brief template correct do a news and the ai will use that as the template to then fill in the blanks so to speak on what you provided right so this is kind of like the net output and this is what teams want right they want more brief so they can create more ads and now they can have ai speed it up very quickly but it's also based on real data right it's based on videos that are actually doing well on tiktok yeah well but i think it's really cool about this mike is that it's the perfect marriage of what ai is great at what ai is great is taking all this unstructured data yeah in this case some information from tiktok videos and on the other side the information about the company and the promise try solve and match it together they to say hey this is probably what you should do and that's literally what most marketers are looking for they're looking for some clarity of strategy and clarity of focus so they can go and run that down and start executing it and i imagine what you find is a huge speed up in acceleration in your ability to like ship work out exactly because you get to that point of clarity really really quickly and i'm sure that any human looking at this brief probably makes a few tweaks disagrees with a few things yeah right and but then it's like it's like eighty in the way there i made some changes and now it's time to go yeah and i think it's the team members working with ai as kind of like a side kick or a side colleague that it can speed up the process maybe get you eighty percent of the way there of course the human is definitely needed to put the finishing touches on this and and make sure that it makes sense but just equip your team with certain tools or workflows they can just make their job easier and allow them to just have more output especially in the ad game you know i'm not a a facebook ad person but the the clients that i work with are all about running ads yep and you know i've heard from them is creative volume with like the meta algorithms is like the number one thing that that meta is looking for right net new concepts as they call it and so this is just one part of the process to be clear they also actually need to create the ads and you know ai can help with that with static ads potential video as well and so you know they're using ai all along the process this is just the beginning but yeah we're talking about like the ad strategy right right and basically here in like sub fifteen minutes you've gone from nothing to an ad strategy mh and then it just depends on the size and scale of your company and your product whether you have some automated workflows to generate those ads you've got a creative team what have you but like we've gone from hey we know we have a certain velocity of add campaigns we need to run to keep our metrics high and this is allowing us to do that at the level we need it yeah if you were running this for clients right you could have you know multiple projects for clients this is what i was talking about the template that i gave it gemini and i wrote this for me and then like the brand bible tone of voice with the brand what are the target audience what are their pain points and as you said ai does a really good job of just layering on contact right arguably you could have another section here that says you know what does a winning ad look like for our company based on our historical data running ads yes so that's another piece of context right throwing all of the context at gemini it can watch the video we can take all of this and it can just s it into an output very quickly i think is like the big thing yeah i mean i i think you're right i think we're telling people practically what to do here is like you would take the output of this brief you would match it with past campaign data you'd give that to jim and i or claude or someone let them basically match those two things together to say oh here's some conceptual ideas to build and test and then you could put that into we or nana banana v or depending on what type of ad format you needed to be to actually get a first rev of the ad creative itself correct and i mean there are people who are very ambitious who want to you know go even for right they wanna automate that part from you know i mean so there's you're part one but they're like what can you do for me next how how do i actually get static ad image from the brief right and so if you were truly building out a real solution you could potentially think about that alright this is phase one alright this looks good how do you tie this into nano banana so i can get twenty static variations that we can quickly test all as one workflow or one tool yeah and i guess the question i'd ask for the audience here is as somebody going through a workflow in this case we're talking about ads it could be almost any part of marketing yeah like how do i determine where to draw that line of automation versus like hey i the person really need to be deeply involved here because this has gotta really be right and i don't think i could automate it you know i think at least the the teams that i work with and anything that is text based meaning research right deep research it it's very good at that writing you know brief writing first draft ads all of that can be automated very well at these point with certain tools like ada or if you're building a custom solution inside of cloud code so like research writing written content as i would call it right ai is just unbelievably good at that especially research like if you think about like if you're kicking on ag one as a brand new client and you need to do a deep dive into their brand their customer reviews pain points like what are the comments left under their videos like that manual process is like a huge job to do ai is really good at the research pulling in ideas dis instill those ideas into whatever format you want where i would caution you know automating certain things is when you get into the more creative side of especially video yes yeah i can't tell you how many people come to me and they want an automated way to create ai u gc videos for whatever reason you know maybe maybe it ads maybe it's tiktok maybe it's tiktok shop because ai video you know depending on what use case is it's coming right and those videos are getting very good you you're gotta get a much we're getting very good and you know if you're running ads or you're doing to talk shop people are interested in alright i wanna experiment with ai video can you build be something that automate two hundred ai videos like that is not something that i would do and i it's frankly i just tell people like the quality is is gonna be terrible you can set up a system that will automate ai video but is that output gonna be good is gonna be a good reflection on your brand right now i the answer that i would say is no so i think it's very hard without a human being yeah deeply involved in doing some very clear instruction and prompting yes for that video generation and really revving on it because i think what you and i probably also learned that it takes a bunch of rev that initial first or second shot isn't that great but you have to do a few rev and then the other thing i tell the audience and remind the audience it's like ai is really good at like getting you to the mean getting you to like what average looks like in marketing it's about devi from the mean and how you actually stand out and that's where humans are so so important and yeah experience and creativity really really kick in yeah especially as you said with like with the video even if you're manually doing it in a tool not automating it may like manually at your desk you're gonna get bad output like yes guaranteed right and so if you're gonna try to throw an automation layer on top of bad output that's just a recipe for disaster like you're gonna spend a lot of money as gonna say it's gonna be expensive to you right like we can build the system we can build the engine like it's possible to automate ai video but is it gonna be good ninety nine percent of time at least right now you know talk to us in six months but that's something as you said you you definitely need that human and even if it was good it's it's only gonna be good if it's like this very very very focused use case yeah like do you have all of the context humanly possible and even then you're gonna get randomly bad output and i think that's what's hard and i'm with you we as we get more gpu capacity and everything online and the video models get better this will all be easier but the reality is the making of the videos and stuff that's kind of the fun part a lot of the part we're talking about automating today that's actually the painful part right yeah i mean the video creation like it's as you said that's is the fun part like iterating learning and this is a good prompt this is a bad prompts anytime you're gonna try to automate that as you said it's gonna be expensive it's it's and you're just gonna get terrible outputs you you'd be surprised that people who want this type of solution but to me at least it's not something that i would build right and so that what we got you for the last couple minutes of the show here mike as we're thinking about the buzz word ai agents and like building kind of workflows and agents to do custom parts of marketing first of all what should people be thinking about maybe building for themselves to to do marketing really well today and then i'd love to hear a little bit more of like also like the way in which you build these things because people i'm sure and the comments are gonna have a ton of questions around that i think so there's huge ai agent hype going on right now i don't know how closely you follow the whole law thing oh mo book is crazy we talk i i have i have some crazy open call ideas that i wanna work on setting up so have you been a future show for everybody i mean listen i you know consider myself pretty plugged into the maybe maybe not as much as some people who go absolutely crazy i don't know i i don't wanna say bad things about it i i struggle where we stand today to see the actual value like real business value out of these you know open call type let's call it ai agents from what i've seen and i've watched a lot of videos and i'm on x pretty frequently it's like you send a telegram and maybe it can like book a dinner reservation but it's your security all of your api keys are leaked and it takes like six hours to do it i don't know so you know i i think there is a big distinction between like an ai agent which is a very hot thing right now and what i you know an ai automation right which is more right it's like we we have certain steps that we want the ai to do and it will execute that in order right so it's not an agent meaning it's not making its own decisions but it's following certain steps so this was the initial tiktok scraper right before i built it in cloud code and made it like a web app sort of thing i built it in na n which you know is is a workflow ai automation mh older and this is what that tool looks like under the hood what i originally built this and an it but this is not you know what you would call an ai agent of this is a workflow tool i would say it's a technical workflow tool yeah you're not just rolling in out of bed and being like hey you know i'm gonna make a thirty node workflow in n eight n you gotta be fairly technical and proficient on that yeah for the audience mike how much time did you spend on and n learning before you really thought like you could build something of meaning you think oh it's a great question because when i first started with let's call it ai automation i was terrified of any then because i'm not a code terrified of it right and there there's other versions of this that make less scary and i was using those tools because i don't wanna deal with api t's i didn't wanna deal with web hooks like i do not from a background of this and so to to answer your question i avoided na n even though i was building these things i was using other tools avoid n and end for at least three to four months but then had a huge moment where it's like listen if you gonna do ai automation you need to know how to use this tool it it took me i don't know four months of like truly building these types of flows and this is with the help by the way of chat or claude in my other browser because i still don't know how to code like i didn't rip that like claude wrote this and then you know we did some debugging and it finally worked but you're right n na nine is not something that you're you know with average marketer will learn or needs to know how to learn but i do think the next step from this is like vibe coding in a tool like claude which i think is actually easier i think it's ways here i'm with you on that and then na at right as i said na had a huge moment i think there's like a turning point going on right now where you know is this really the future of building ai like these sc little nodes on a thing probably not in my opinion it probably is something like cloud code where your average user can potentially learn to vibe code a solution that you know your team can use internally that's actually valuable and useful yeah so your point is like if you're hardcore is powerful and can be valuable yeah but if you're just a marketer and you're like hey i'm just sick of doing a bunch of manual stuff that i have to do that i think there's a better way and then it's like hey let me vibe coat of tooling and cloth and then if it is helpful maybe i work with somebody like you or somebody else to build a more perm person or maybe if there's a great like off the shelf agent product out there right that i can use and there's kind of like a hierarchy of how you wanna solve that problem it seems like yeah you're not gonna go messing around in this even if you start with something like a quad project or now they're claude c and pop keep up with all the clog updates you know something that you're doing repeatedly has a chance to be automated and and you know especially if you're taking a lot of time and you're literally doing the same thing over and over and over again where is that line can it be solved with a cloud project with a bunch of context files maybe right now we've got claude skills which are kind of just you know pre prompts that you can call or do you need to you know actually vibe code some kind of tool it really depends on your use case this is also mike where i i think we'd be remiss food call out reminder that jim and i can consume videos up to an hour long google jim and so if you don't know you can literally just record yourself doing something you hate like you could literally just say this is the thing i hate most about my job i'm gonna record myself doing it for an hour and ask jim and i what you can do to not have to do that thing you hate anywhere is it an hour i didn't even yeah it's an hour it can watch videos up to an hour long so it'll just watch and break down on everything and then reason through what you can do that's insane i didn't realize it was that long i should do a whole show on that my maybe i need to do like a workflow recording and do that whole that sounds like a great use case because i don't think many people even know that gemini and i can literally feed the video it'll analyze the video it'll output all of your steps and then give you an idea for hey this is what you can automate and exactly well here's how you can potentially build this if you wanna think about building it but using ai to help you build with ai totally it's how i've gotten here well yeah i think your story is an important story it's like you're not a web developer you're not somebody who writes sun code somebody who's curious and has taught themselves how to build to solve problems that you have like business domain and expertise in right and i think one of the reasons we do the show is because we wanna power a lot of people to go and do that and because it is now possible in a way that it never was before yeah for shit i think the business use case is actually a very important point and you know i i kind of started generally just sharing on twitter just broad ai stuff broad ai automation and then i don't know what maybe it was like a tiktok thing that i did but like the e commerce people started reaching out to me then that's kind of now my use case but you're totally right like understanding the business case like what pain points do they have will help you build these solutions a lot easier because you understand what they're actually trying to do alright as we're closing out the show mike any last advice you give for somebody who might be you know you twelve months ago you eighteen months ago what would you tell people to baby save some time and compact that learning that you've done in a shorter period of time so i think whether it's cloud code or codecs i would actually start there right i i would not do na and i would not do mate dot com or zapier i would start learning how to build something very simple like just call an api right like your first api call and i literally have two monitors i have claude coding one and then just regular claude right could just copy and paste certain things mh claude can help you build in clock right ai in terms of this at least for me has been the best teacher how i learned end it's how i'm learning cloud code in codecs is just by having ai help me build with air but if i was starting today i i i hate to say it i would probably not learn n i would learn how to vibe code in something like card code and and just start very small with like a small use case something that's taking up a little bit of your time can you build a small solution that will actually work and i think with a little bit of practice with claude you can definitely do i love that that's awesome advice and mike this was great i think you've really transformed how i think about building these light tools to solve problems that are just manual hard things that get in all of our way and thanks for joining us on the show today we really appreciate having you thanks so much ke it great to be here hey everyone you know karen and i have been doing the podcast for a while now we've been at this for a couple years we love it we could not be happier to be doing this but we wanted to take things to the next level we wanna level up impact we're having with marketing against the grain so the next step of our journey is something we're really really excited about we're gonna launch the marking against the grain newsletter and marketing against the grain newsletter is going to be a amazing if you are a marketing leader practitioner you're in the trenches do in marketing every day this is for you we're gonna deliver right to your email inbox and you're gonna get all the behind the scenes frameworks practices tutorials from us from guest we have on the show and from people even beyond the podcast that we think are gonna be helpful and really have an impact on your day to day week to week doing marketing you're going to love it it is something we've been talking about for a while we're really excited to have it out in the world we've already got a hundred thousand marketers who are on this newsletter please join it's completely free we'd love to have you as part of the marketing against the grain community and it's easy you can click the link in the description below you can head to marketing against the grain dot com slash subscribe or

the head of product ad t just sit seven words that should make every knowledge worker set up and pay attention we are now transitioning into vibe working not vibe code in vibe working and if you are sitting there thinking okay another ai buzz word i can just forget this it's going to disappear in the next couple of weeks i need you to stay with me for the next twelve minutes because watch just ship last week from call than ant ent wasn't an incremental update it was really a moment in time it was when ai stopped being a tool you talk to and became a team you manage by the end of this you're going to understand exactly what vibe work it means why it changes the game for anyone who works with information for a living and this specific shift you need to make right now before everyone around you figures it out first let's get into the today's show before we get into today's show here's a quick word from hubspot cutting your sales cycle in half sounds pretty incredible but that's exactly what sandler training did with hubspot they used breeds hubspot ai tools to tailor every customer interaction without losing their personal touch and the results were pretty incredible click through rates jumped twenty five percent qualified leads quadruple hold and people spit three times longer on their landing pages go to hubspot dot com to see how breeze can help your business grow okay let's rewind twelve months the big thing everyone was talking about was thy code andre cap mccarthy one of the x founders of open ai coined the term here in this tweet the idea that you could describe what you wanted built and the eye would just write the code and that was based upon his early experience with cursor and claude on it and it worked and it's got much much better people with zero code and experience started chip apps developers started building in ten times faster it was a huge shift am x developer not a very good code and i was able to launch my own product through a lot of this vibe ko but here's the thing no one really talked about in relation to vibe code it only matter to people who are building software right what about the rest of us us marketers the analysts the consultants all of the different founders who are drowned in debt and spreadsheets and research the millions of knowledge workers who don't write code but still spend their entire day produce some work produce an output that's what's just changed this week and t the company behind claude shipped at whole set of updates that take the same principles behind vibe code and apply it to every single knowledge worker their head of products scott white who came on the shows willie set it perfectly when he said claude went from a model that you can kinda sort of talk to to accomplish a very small task and get an answer to something that you can actually hand real significant work to and it can do it really autonomously so you can get an outcome and it can do that work that is not buzz word speak that is not marketing speak that is a description of what the head of product at ant t actually said and i wanna break this down into three specific launches from last week and i wanna make them real for you to tell you the core shifts that are happening and why last week was just so historic okay shift one is really agent teens so here's how most people use ai today right you open chat you open claw you type a prompt you get a response you are saying this is the task i want this is an example of the output i need and you probably go back and forth and you refine it you make it better that's like hiring a person and kinda given them one job at a time right i give them the task i kinda describe my outcome i work with it and it's able to come back with the output what ent just launched is called agent teams that can orchestrate in cloud code sessions and it really starts to flip this model instead of giving ai a single task i describe an outcome i say hey i want competitive analysis of these five companies i want a summary deck and then i wanna a brief that i can send to my ceo and in the way we work with ai today i would do all those things separately right i would probably have to do some competitive analysis give it a ton of content to be able to do that i would have to describe the five companies i would have to like give it a template to create the deck i would have to give it a template and say here's how you write the brief that's how it would do it in the past but now with these agent teams claude just starts doing the work it spins up a team of agents and one is gonna do the research in and one is going to write one is building the deck so it builds up this team of agents and is able to orchestrate the work across them which really create digital workers who are specialized in individual tasks and then it orchestrate that work across them these are really like actual colleagues look if you wanna get ahead of the vibe working era we just dropped a guide on the one hundred thousand dollar ai jobs that no one is talking about these roles are paying anywhere between fifty thousand dollars to well over one hundred thousand dollar salaries we put together a guide that shows you exactly how to position yourself for these roles before everyone else catches on get it right now click the link in the description now let's get back to the show so let me tell you a quick story to kinda of bring this to life a friend of mine they run a small agency there's six people in that agency so it's a pretty small agency and when they go and try to get work they have to pitch for that work right so they were trying to pitch for a big potential client last month and the entire pitch took them in a week right they did full market analysis they did strategic dog they did the presentation you know he tells me hey we're spending like a week we have to do this all of the other agencies are doing that we turn up we pitch we try to win those dollars well with claude code and the skills and orchestration of this word you can basically just say the outcome is an incredible pitch for this customer that i want to win on these reasons right like go pull the information talk about our key selling points and show some examples of how we can make their lives better and it will actually go and orchestrate that across your team so now that agency he can spend much more time doing the work of clients making that work really great because he can have a team of agents orchestrated by cloud code to do all of the pitching so for him he's gone from orchestrated in that work across a small team and doing some of that himself to be in a agent orchestra orchestrated right he's actually use agents to go and do that work he's a manager of agents not manager of people and the people are busy crafting and great assets and marketing and things like that for clients this is available right now in cloud code and honestly this is the reason and a recent post i talked about what i'm spending my time on this year cloud code was number one i got a lot of feedback to say hey you're a market tier ex developer by the way but you're a marketer here why are you learning the cloud code because cloud code can do way more than actually build code i use it for tons of marketing use cases i've build a ton of cloud code skills that help me do my work and now i can build teams of agents that can orchestrate work across them to do that work stay tuned of course we have you covered with a cloud code for marketers come in very soon okay shift number two and this one is really gonna hit home for a lot of you knowledge workers right if you're watching this video you raise your hand if you've ever had to use excel or powerpoint i'm sure most people are using those tools and what you really do is you open chat tb you kinda copy and paste some content into them that gives you some output and you copy and paste it back in right if you're using powerpoint you're probably going to working in cloud you're gonna take some stuff put it in the powerpoint and back and forth the same with excel well that entire back and forth has really just disappeared because claude is bringing agents into the actual tools that you use so claude can now sit inside excel i'm a really good data person i was never really good at excel i've always been very fortunate to have a great analyst to work with me and i know how to do data analysis well i don't have to worry about that because i have the ability to understand what data matters turn an into interaction in cloud code and do all of the data work for me in excel and build all the stuff for me so that's an example and not just that you can do the same sort of thing in powerpoint so again it's really becoming an assistant that's available in all of the tools that you use you can start to just build all of your slides in powerpoint also a shout to claude in general building slides in claude has gone in so much better you can really build great decks right within claude but the key thing here is claude is really bringing agents into your workspace where you can use them with the tools like you use each and every day so that's shift number two i thought that was pretty incredible and then the shift number three is really opus four point six with its one million token context window so opus four point six was released on thursday i'm recorded this friday and it is pretty amazing i think this is going to be another step up one of the biggest limitations of ai up until now has been context in context is you can upload some documentation and then you can work with that documentation and that data right within that context window you've had this incredibly powerful tool but you can only feed it so much data at once and you'd have to chop up the work into little pieces to be able to work with it on the task you want to work with it on claude has a one million token context window to put that in plain terms you can feed it your entire code base right if you're a developer if you have a piece of software and you have a large code base you can give it all your financial filings you can give it every single doc you want to give it all at once and it has that in its context window and o opus four point six can now work with that context window and opus four point six is actually incredible but here's why this really matters when you have a one million token context window and you can provide it much more data ai is able to make connections across all of this data versus you trying to piece it together they can look at thousands of pages of documentation and it can figure out relationships between something that's on page of thousand and that's something that's on page one right it can really maintain consistency across the task that you're trying to do with that it doesn't lose its thread like it does when you're trying to piece the data in and that paired with the fact that opus point point six is another step up in terms of reason models and thinking models means that you now have a powerful ai assistant that can autonomously do tasks in a much much great way and so they're really the three trends that have happened over the past number of days we've seen agent teams become the real thing we've seen ai being brought to the tools you use we now have ai that has a huge context window and is a step up again in terms of thinking and reasoning and we should just step back and think about what is the bigger picture right if we really kinda zoom out here because the real insight isn't about a single feature and that's what i'm trying to show here it's really about a pattern vibe code was a big deal because it allowed you to describe what you wanna build n was able to write the code and build that thing and now over the course of the last year the ability for ai to code that thing without you having to step in and provide feedback and iteration and debug has got better and better and better vibe working in is gonna go down the same path it's describing the outcome you need and ai is going to do the work and that means ai is going from hey ai you can do this like one narrow task to hey ai you can do the entire piece of this work yourself because you are orchestrated in that work across different agents now i think there's a version of this online that is all hype and no substance that is not what we do here so here's what i really believe has happening and part of every knowledge workers job is going to become building and training in and deploy teams of ai agents not using an ai not prompt but actually manage an ai teams and if you think about what a manager does a manager doesn't do every task themselves right a manager defines the outcome they assemble the right people they give them context reviews their work and they iterate with that team and that's the skill that is really gonna become relevant for every single knowledge worker not just people with direct reports and here's the thing to bring this into reality of how important is most people aren't preference for this they're still in the i'm gonna go to chat tea and let me ask you a question and being an amazed at chat boutique can come back with the answer that's kinda like being in two thousand and eight and still thinking the iphone is just a phone with a touch of the screen the way you think about ai and what's happening is way too confined it's way too small it's not an answer engine it is a platform that allows you to build an entire digital team what do you do about it let me give you three concrete steps first you're gonna need to start thinking in outcomes and stop thinking in task so when you go to ai create me a blood post on the ten tips to do this thing is a task when you go to ai in the future and you're able to have an agent team you may ask it to say hey i really need a content strategy that can actually help grow my ex volume by thirty percent for technology founders and i wanna post three times a week and i want to be able to figure out how i can measure the success of that month on month do you wanna think of an right i wanna grow my audience by thirty percent for this audience and so that is one way to start thinking about how you're going to work with ai outcome base versus task base the second is claude code and i will have a lot of things come in around claude code both on this channel and everywhere else that i am i know that signs like i'm telling you to go learn code in it's not cloud code is really a command line tool where a lot of these agent teams live and i use it for lots of things not just build software i use it to do a lot of research i use it to do a lot of marketing content tasks it is an incredible tool that allows you to build skills and have agent teams to do everyday work cloud code is much more than build in software and the third one is you are going to have to start thinking in terms of workflows right not using an ai for these kind of one off tasks but trying to think about how i can build workflows that are repeatable and scalable and can be handed off to ai teams people who win in the vibe work and era aren't going to be the ones who use ai the most you know ai usage doesn't necessarily correlate you'd be in the most productive person or being the most impactful person that people who are really going to succeed in the vibe work in an era are the ones who system ai could come up with repeatable workflows and know how to delegate that to their agent teams to do here's what i want to leave you with right every few years there's a shift that splits the timeline into the before and after in hubspot we love a today and tomorrow slide here's how things work today here's how things will work tomorrow the internet was one mobile was one vibe coding was one and now vibe working is definitely going to be one not because technology is magic but because it changes who does the work for the first time in history a single knowledge worker can describe an outcome and have a team of agents execute on that work they're gonna be doing research right in analysis presentation and c generation all at once again they do it in parallel they have a team of agents doing this in parallel inside tools that you already use the question isn't whether this is happening i want to prepare you this is happening and it's going to get faster because all of these companies are using their own tools agent teams to ship these products it's whether you are gonna be the person who manages the agents or you're gonna be the person who gets replaced by them if this video is useful for you make show you subscribe i know everyone's going to watch this and they want to go well how do i get into the v work era i need to learn claude c work and cloud code skills i need to learn claude code for marketers tiers and cloud code growth the professionals we have got you covered more tutorials coming your way subscribe to the channel and i'll see you in the next video everyone you know kirin and i have been doing the podcast for a while now we've been at this for years we love it we could not be happier to be doing this but we wanted to take things to the next level we wanna level up the impact we're having with marketing against the grain so the next step of our journey is something we're really really excited about we're gonna launch the marking it's the grain newsletter and marketing against the grain newsletter is going to be amazing if you are a marketing leader practitioner you're in the trenches do in marketing every day this is for you we're gonna deliver right to your email inbox and you're get all the behind the scenes frameworks practices tutorials from us from guest we have on the show and from people even beyond the podcast that we think are gonna be helpful and really have an packed on your day to day week week doing marketing you're going to love it it is something we've been talking about for a while we're really excited to have it out in the world we've already got a hundred thousand marketers who are on this news newsletter please join it's completely free we'd love to have you as part of the marketing against the grain community and it's easy you can click the link in the description below or you can head to marketing against the grain dot com slash subscribe

everyone today we're telling you how to impress your boss how to impress your customers how to impress your coworkers and we're doing it all with ai and slide decks we got kristen from ga who's gonna blow your mind with some ai slide workflow lows that are going to make your work sing let's get to today's show before we get into today's show here's a quick word from hubspot cutting your sales cycle in half sales pretty incredible but that's exactly what sandler training did with hubspot they used breeds hubspot ai tools to tailor every customer interaction without losing their personal touch and the results were pretty incredible click through rates jumped twenty five percent qualified needs quadrupled and people spit three times longer on their landing pages good to hubspot dot com to see how breeze can help your business grow i'm here to argue with kieran and our friend kristen from gamma that slides are the most under underutilized and underappreciated format of content on the internet today and ai has completely changed oh we and everyone should think about slides to think about doing slides and we wanna show you what we mean today and so kristen f leads marketing at gamma she's here to walk us through some awesome slide workflows to show you how slide building has changed and ways that you can actually use slides to increase and accelerate your business growth your marketing your sales efforts so kristen thanks so much for joining us on the show today yeah thanks for having me okay kieran and i we've hated doing slides our whole life ai is finally making slides better and so maybe we should just jump right in kristen into maybe a first example show everybody exactly what we're talking about but we say like ai slides what do we actually mean and then we can kinda rip jam on the use cases and show some other examples yeah definitely happy too so i've got several examples i can show you guys from very simple to more complex but let me go ahead and start with something that hopefully blows everybody's minds right away and it just shows a visual power up this off the bat and then we can start digging into more sophisticated let's do it alright so i'm in gamma right now i'm using a demo workspace right now it's for a fictional d fitness brand called strat third probably taking on peloton and so what we have here is a couple template slide deck so i'm gonna go ahead and show you this one that would be an example of a template for a conference right so think about something that you're pitching to get monsters everybody has these stacks of you are big enough company that i have conferences is so what i'm gonna do here is i'm just going through remix from this stack because it's not twenty twenty five anymore it's twenty twenty six alright so last year's summit in this example was an aspen colorado so this year's summit is going to be and you guys wanna pick a place pam my spain like that right i everyone go to pam at pretty cool it's a great place you know so much don't buy property because you're driving on the prices and wanna buy a property there alright let's say make this stack for a twenty twenty sixth summit in palm fame we'll see what's this olives of great white wine that's all i'm gonna do quick prompts the most basic of basic prompts and this is like the classic like hey i got this deck but i gotta do a new version of this deck and it's gonna feel real dr to go through and do all that updating right yeah and probably be better if had a longer prompt but we're gonna one shot this because i think it all i think it shot i know what's really funny that brand doesn't exist right is this a fake brand strat mh yeah it's fake print yeah when you were showing this i was like oh that sounds cooler taking a bella and i was like digging it in to see where they were but like don't i was like their web presence really sucks this brand i can't find them anywhere it's not a real front but it looks cool you know yeah i use the gamma this is pretty cool actually i haven't seen the ways building the slides it's like super cool and we're still building some slides because some good images going here is gonna take a minute you it's pretty fast though i would say jeff fyi it's pretty fast here's our team but you can see it's adjusted everything from last year and so i probably know this is eighty percent of the work right of adjusting your deck for your sum of this year you can do this with sales tax as well too right so that's a much more frequent use case if you got a sales sack or a sales call you know get tense calls a day you're just remix it for each one for follow i mean by the way the hotel picked is very nice i would definitely go there but it's up on the cliff in my i i wanna go you know how people used to do maybe the state's because mode to how people used to do like these slide ro presentations where like they would have to just present a presentation they never heard of like now i want gamma to generate a random deck and i wanna just go to all the places it makes up in there and just feel like cool i i guess i'm gonna go safe at this hotel now it's gonna be great yeah can you show over at the airport and just you know here familiar with you hey real quick if kristen examples are resonating you're going to want this we're sharing ten complete automations with twenty four prompts that turn everything into slides call recordings become sales follow ups survey data becomes research reports blog posts become linkedin carousel cells grab it now hit the link in the description but i think that this is a prime example what you were just showing right where you're just like alright most existing companies have some level of slide decks and most existing companies have kind of a reoccurring cadences that you need to use and it'd be very easy to basically just copy this year's a event brief right like here's the location the schedule whatever into that prompt and just use last year's deck remix it and i mean i'm sure the one shot might be perfect but it's probably gonna be like eighty percent of the way there you do some light tweaking and you're ready to go totally let me show you something even better so any note taker you use whether you're using gong you know using fire i'm just a big granola stand so i use granola internally here nice so i have a quick zapier your workflow granola has got some good zapier integrations in my opinion just making us really super user friendly so let's imagine i am somebody on our sales team i've got ten calls in a day i record on granola my notes from all my first calls i put those in this folder and then automatically i'm creating a deck and gamma there's all sorts of settings you can adjust here but one of my favorite new features is actually doing this from a template deck and so on this demo workspace we have our strat for business you know the the custom proposal template deck and so this is an example here i just s synthesized a call for ridge line software there's no prompting this is all automated it's just taking in the transcript yeah and so if you're somebody who has you know ten calls in a day and you need to send follow decks to those ten calls and the follow decks basically kind of based off the same template with the same kind of instructions selling a product or whatever you can automate this very quickly mh right like you basically don't have to do anything and you you'll just go to ga and the decks will be there the notes from the call are getting past the ai is running it building the slides and then at the end of the day when you wanna send the slides off the right there yeah definitely so this next step slide that i'm showing right now i think it illustrates that right like this is just all from the call notes granola is pretty good summarizing you can do some more prompt engineering around this if you want but i think i've had good experience just straight from the transcript with gamma ai understanding this and if you wanna be really crazy you could just go ahead and email it directly let trust ai that lets you is that the ai i don't trust it's like if your a rep says some things that you don't want to be come back and put on to print hey on this here could you have multiple inputs in this workflow i wanted to put it in call transcript i wanted to put in hey like these should be in every deck they're like best practice there how we talk about how we sell certain parts of the process how we position our product to this type of customer these types of like more advanced sales tactics like how would that work yeah you know in zapier or a make you have the the option to have your prompting in here so i mean the simple way to do this if you're using zapier is just to prompt your this it's very decent turn this call transcript but you can add a lot more there mh some people do some processing in a step in between with like chat e or claude i mean you could add in hubspot right you can continue to like make a deck that captures my entire history of calls with this prospect and then you create a deck from this current call so this is a simple work you get started yeah you could basically actually add a step to turn to granola talk notes into a prompt i divided open ais as step where claude is a step i could actually have claude then just take the notes and craft that into a prompt and i've already told claude yeah you just have the instructions quad projector in this yeah yeah that's actually really cool actually yeah yeah then you can actually sorry my minds is not going into tell us what you're thinking carrying what's cooking in that okay this is probably too crazy but if you know certain characteristics about the company you could actually have clogged pre programmed with well tell me if it's company like this and if it's a company like this these are usually the kind of core things that work with a company like that right and so you can actually do some sort of pattern recognition in that claude step to say hey based on this natural language it's a company like this or that or this and you then you tell claude what are the right selling points because you actually correct you've noticed what kind of company it is so you can construct the deck to completely pattern match to sell exactly to that customer in the way that you've know that customers like that generally want to buy and how you've closed them in the past and i think that would be a pretty interesting way to like really craft that deck towards that company yeah definitely i have to show you guys this one i did because cloud connectors i'm obsessed with now and so i could also see you doing this with clock connectors right that's hubspot has a a cloud connector to gamma so i sent myself an email as if i was you know my assistant or you know whoever was like prepping me for a call for a podcast and you know here's all the prep on like kip here and so this is just a very simple clock connector i do have a hubspot connector in here as well too so for your specific you know use case that we were ripping on there you know i think that we could probably also do this through that full flow clog but in this case this it's gmail gamma and so search for my emails for all the contacts and marketing instagram i have to show you guys this because it made me laugh when i tried this last night and so straight into gamma it's actually pretty good it pulled in the details of the call this is good yeah nice and it actually well did some i mean you guys i mean i'll send this to you if you want you can tell me how this is really good actually is very good part my calls okay here's the best part alright here's the images of you're i looked that i have a superhero and you really like data here i'm like an accounting changer you're like generic like ai illustration guy that's pretty good that's actually exactly me i am anti socks yeah you are entire sucks so you did it captured your little style there yeah yeah yeah i like those little whole work shoes no socks yeah if you're supposed to this not watching on youtube kip bone i think is like clark cat tall it's hilarious is a you know generic like ai illustrated from tat guy was like a bunch of translucent into graphs but the growth for mo tour if yeah i mean imagine if you were prepping regular your a marketer or like prepping your leader or your ceo between know yeah i didn't do anything you know this was this is just like context research context from claude i love this it's basically like a great way to visualize deep research that claude is really great at in a very high consumption way and i do think that's the power of those connectors right where like what you're were showing before is really good like if it's a mass sales team that you're trying to automate stuff for this is like great like hey just working claude i wanna do some basic one off tasks and it does this very well and very quickly well yeah i like that it pulled in we have a prompt guide on our site so it's like you know it's there lots of takeaways or template that's really good we should do the reverse of this darn we should send this to guests exactly we shouldn't have a guest come and said this to us what's the office way we should be i'm looking at disco and god this is like a really good representative and we should be doing more so should be doing that's a good idea describe to show better than we describe it i love this she's miss the models are getting really good right yeah like image models are getting really good so good better more with it visualizations like the you know l were we're pretty good you know even better now and so you put those things together it's so much more consumable for when you can have a side visual storytelling completely great because i think when people think of slides i don't think they think of all the incredible way you could use them this use case you just showed me i think we will use this to prep our guest but i'm actually going to use this to visualize some of the things that claude just tells me exact seats that this is an easier way for sometimes for me to just see the results from a claude conversation but are there other things that you see value and bring it into life and slides that maybe others are under underappreciated right now yeah i think anytime you have an instinct to just send like giant blocks of text anybody you you should just put it in visual blurb on now because it's just so much more consumable so it's easier we just ran a user survey a thousand people long you know we did it with a survey tool that does some great already kind of like crunching and s sizing of the the data and comparisons but then i use claude to help process it and then i made a user research report all different slices within gamma we have some multi page gamma you can also do it more extensive reports so it like their overview and you you tab down and you have the you know free versus paid users split in thirty minutes i had a hundred page document to give to my team which also just probably you know hundred page documents are really long but it was just from the survey and the process and comparisons of results and because it was visual right you know it turns everything right so here's a table right here's like the things that resonated in most with like free users you know it because it's kinda so broken up so visual you've got charts diagrams mixed with text like takeaways user quotes pulled out thirty minutes i mean that's a type of task you'd have a whole team for right you know like take weeks like give them a task and then they come back with this massive report you pay somebody of the externally to do it so i mean that's just one example anytime when you would just be like here's like an output right could this be better visualize a second thing is there's just so much information and communication that happens all the time and so one of the projects that i did when i first started at gamma and this was not you know with gamma but it was notebook l is we have a slack community channel of our ambassadors and we were trying to get a better read on our persona so i just took all their introductions an the intro channel and just ask notebook l to take a look at this and tell me right who's the personas have our power user and it did a really nice job so i've been recreating that in gamma more recently i set up this demo here with a synthetic example of that so search the slack channel make me a deck and gamma summarizing the members who join my community this week you go ahead and run that which won't take very long at all but i can show you an output example here well you could just have a brainstorm just have it output of a brainstorm deck i've gonna run for my team and then present back to them and tell them what they're life this is who what ai says you really are and i'm gonna like purposely tell the prompt to focus in all their weak points so being love i love that personality analysis scam i mean that's for the reason i love working at this company right because once you're like embedded in like you can just visualize anything you know you just why not so here's an example of that community again this is just raw input raw input into gamma of introductions so because with claude we're counting all the new members how many people joined it's giving me some profiles here i think this is a stack and be looking at all these chief he's sweet vp level we got some world class engineering talent that's been joining it's starting to organize here case who we app in product to management design sales customer success making attempt here pulling logos of who's joined the community what companies is there from they are professional poker players i mean this is dream community a sort community i actually wanna join this community there's some poker talk about ai that's like my happy space that's great yeah but i think what's really fascinating here is i think in most people's mindset and i think a lot of people watching the shows mindset is probably like well alright i'm gonna have an l claude or chat gpu or somebody create a slide outline for this deck that i'm working on and then i'm gonna hand it over to gamma to just build that outline and what what you're actually saying is no no don't don't do that pick a data source whether it be survey whether it be a slack channel whether it be a g drive file a zap would have you and give it some specific instructions and then let it do the first version of the outlining image building and everything for you and then you can go back and and edit it from there and it's a very different process than i think most people are used to at this point you know it's a good point to bring up because it used to be my process as well too yeah course we'll have to do that anymore right like that's sort of one of the big advancements for the normal person i think you know in the past year is how easy it is to use no code tools or the connectors and slack and chat right now to just completely automate this yeah that is actually my workflow and so i this is the encourage me to like try something different it's and i actually would kinda default the claw to build an outline and then maybe use gamma or something to kinda build the deck but it's kind of incredible like obviously gamma has reason in logic and all that stuff i can do it itself but i think the other big takeaway for me just going three different workloads is because slides are as easy to create as just text has been in the past kinda what kip said we probably under appreciate in how many use cases are better in slide format than they are in text format correct there's probably like so many interesting ways to use it because it's so much easier to do now and so got even though i'm taking away from this while there's there's tons of things i'm probably doing that would be better and in that slide format and i even think about the conversations you and i have here and working solving problems well like is this is this a long form article is this a video we never say like oh no we're gonna make like a really remarkable like fifteen slide deck right and then sometimes that's actually the best answer is like a more mixed media format yeah well you know what's enabled that as nano banana pro yeah bo one hundred percent i wasn't doing that before like a year ago ai generated stock images like they didn't look great right you had to do you know a lot now i can just look so impressive and so that's like something i think important for people to notice i wanna show you guys one more thing because we just released leonardo two n b three in gamma and so now you can just generate animated slide decks off the bat oh appearance i love this mh okay i'm on in the alright so i'll show you some fun outputs but i'll do it live here so we can actually see it's real what the one shot does i'm gonna do this in our studio mode because it is all about making the most of the image model so these are gonna be pure image cards you can do ones with text as well too but i'll start with this one first and then i can show you what it looks like and maybe a a a presentation you'd be more likely to use for work so do you guys wanna give me a topic that you'd like to see a deck about i'm gonna do the five best poker players of all time let's see who it's gonna put into this list alright five best poker players all time i'm gonna do a six card deck here i have a title card and one for each alright so ga is gonna give you an outline first year i don't know many any of these people are are daniel yeah the kid alright so instead of ai images i'm gonna do ai animations here do you guys have a preference leonardo motion or view three point one let's go v three belongs yeah let's go the most expensive yeah the spinning those credits big time that's really all credits it's gonna take a minute since it's the the high end image models but it won't be too long do i have access this i'm using gamma or is this is like not not launched yet this particular one is on our ultra plan okay the is plan right i had to do in studio mode but you can do it on either our ultra business plans through the animations right okay kieran is such a sucker for animations that he's going to see this and he's gonna immediately be on the ultra i have no problem with spending credits my entire hire i had to be mortgage to use man last night so he's like you wanna upgrade for more credits yes you wanna upgrade for more credits you wanna give him more guys whatever i don't even know how much money i'm spend and turns out to spend spending a lot trying to agents are are credit gu yeah because no you don't because like i don't know it's like for a normal person trying to use i'm in the space but like i don't really understand tell me like this is gonna use five that's a credit sure i don't even look at my plan to too many credits i have is like you haven't got this many credits so you can pay us more money sure sounds good i mean the guy i mean this is like the best poker player ball time i mean i wish i was playing with all of the money against his guy first of all he's got third half he's got three hands so he's gonna be a pretty good poker player but like holding in your cars like that that's a terrible strategy alright well we're in just vibes mode and this scott's got all the chips i know look we're just trying to do this for illustrative purposes right and it's fun yeah but you can imagine with like a really good prompting not just in just five modes but with like text and context it'll be good this is pure ai but like yes it also is why it's so important to be in the ui where you can edit it yeah so correct i would go here and i would say this is terrible please take a peek this is great can you temp empathize it so i can use this in more places please take away the third hand it's unfair to other blair the interesting part about this is i don't think most people will think of slides as having animated components no yeah i don't think that's just how people are used to thinking and now what we're saying is like not just is it a lot easier to make slides not only are we gonna hopefully make better slides but like what slides are in the baseline expectations are gonna change a lot yeah like the fidelity and quality is gonna change dramatically yeah here would make a slide like this before i you like call in when your you know video team though you how much this would of cost pre ai a slide deck like this would cost like fifty grand cool search better storytelling tone i think that's like go one of the core takeaways is you know we started on this at a good place maybe to and slides probably are one of the more under appreciated forms storytelling and the fact that you can kinda do full multi model world class lives with prompts is a a huge unlock for bringing a ton of things to life much more visually here my question for you is if you were watching this video and you saw and your mind got opened up to what's possible like what are the first couple of things you would go and do to make your business more productive like i think one would certainly be christ flow of like have a note taker do call recordings and automate really good decks to prospects or customers versus just like sending them like a weak follow up email like that would certainly be one what else yeah i think the sales enable is a really good one like that's the one you talk through which is hey like i if you're talk to a rep and then you wanna increase the meat into close one deals like closing that deal that's a really good one i think dex as an outreach mh like if you have a team that has reached an add to the main cool contacts trend to get them to actually take a a call with you the fact that you could just ingest data about their prospect and create a incredibly visual deck just for them so we think of ai prospecting then as like text base today but you could actually do text plus an entire presentation just for that company and that's probably going to why them right now because that's something unique i think one of the ways if you were just wanted to increase your following and use it much more for marketing i think you could easily craft and i probably will try this side actually craft into linkedin carousel cells mh that would be a real use case that i think makes a ton of sense and i think like a lot of marketers like internally are just not good storyteller of their own strategy like internally you have to do a lot of stakeholder management you have to sell your strategy you have to make people feel your make good decisions and they really understand what you and the team are doing this is a great way to do it actually like put blood your strategy docs even probably you could just ingest your project management information and show like hey here's exactly what we're doing and this is why it's going to work yeah there's there's so many use cases i mean obviously i've spent a lot of time on a few here but since you mentioned social carousel this is a make flow that i'm going to start using for myself i know other people use it it's so hard to think about content to make all the time right people are busy so this is a quick flow spreadsheet you know insert your topic set it up and make or or zapier and this is the output so topic cycling moments of twenty twenty five sending it into make researching with chat generate the carousel so all automated with chat research here end up with something like this all the brand so something a share right to linkedin which if you a a power user of power linkedin poster you can actually do directly from gamma right here that's cool very cool well kristen maybe one last question maybe you can share this or not this is just personal curiosity which is like i noticed that you know i imagine a lot of people making dex and gamma what is the number one source of visits to shared gamma decks is it linkedin is it email is it just direct traffic like do you know how people are discovering these decks that are getting made right now that's a good question i actually don't know i i'm sure we have this in our metrics i would be interested in that as well because back in the day we all loved slide you guys don't rebuild a modern day slide share i'd be so sad it seems like just an obvious opportunity i mean we have so many users that real i'm honestly like the bulk of it is just like personal shares right sharing since yes every great team teachers professors sharing gamma you know sales team sharing gamma some people do publicly index their gamma and so we do see seo traffic great oh that's interesting or yeah know if you search for certain types of like slide decks or presentations you'll you'll see gamma pop up as well too yeah alright cool there's definitely probably a little seo a hacks with some public gamma links karen i think yeah maybe you and i'll play around and then do a follow ups show on that yeah we are loaded with new ideas lots of fun work for us to go do kristen thank you so much for building these workflows sharing these workflows with all of us and inspiring us all on how to tell some better visual stories and thanks for being on show today yeah thanks so much awesome we'll see everybody real soon on the next episode of marketing against screen everyone you know kirin and i have been doing the podcast for a while now we've been at this for a couple of years we love it we could not be happier to be doing this but we wanted to take things to the next level we wanna level up the impact we're having with marketing against the grain so the next step of our journey is something we're really really excited about we're gonna launch the marking against the grain newsletter and marketing against the grain 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